… well bearable

I’ve a 2006 Giant XTC which to be honest is a bit brutal to ride. I suspect its down to the 6061/6011 alu. instead of using 7005, a thick walled 30.8mm alu. post and an SDG Bel Air

I actually like the way it rides otherwise (except for the calf-bashing when thrashing it in the peak/lakes – but I can live with that). Not too keen on the rear wheel thud after attempting drops though

I can’t really get bigger than a 2.1″ Kenda in the rear either, as the dropouts are worn to the point the tyre can buzz the chainstays under pedalling.
I’ve tried it at lower pressures (down to 25psi) but its horrendous on the road, and doesn’t really help all too much.
I’ve swapped the saddle for a better fitting/a bit more padded specialized one, but again it’d be nice to make it more comfy

Short of using the full suss for everthing (the HT is nice for XC local stuff and makes a good backup), or buying a steel frame what else can I do?

How much difference would a narrower seatpost make? Would it flex more?
[and shim it down to fit? – though not ideal for seat dropping]

Are carbon seatposts that much more forgiving? Again would a narrower one make any difference
Though again, I’d need to shim it as I can’t for the life of me find one in 30.8mm. A 30.9 is a very stiff fit so I’m not going to pretend that will work for a carbon post
An inline one would fit better, but which one?

Telescopic Suspension Seatpost?
A thudbuster?
Weighty and costly though?

How much difference will any of those make? Of those, which are the ones to buy?
Anything else that could help out?

Ok You’re XTC is a great handler but is essentially a XC racer and alu-it’s harsh but stiff for power transfer and handling twists etc.

It’s like saying make F1 car a bit more comfortable!

You could try carbon posts and bars which worked for my Zaskar and a new saddle.

Any more and you’ll increase weight and handling.

I would save your money and buy the same or similar race whippit frames but made of carbon instead.

Don’t waste money.

How harsh is it for you? try going for carbon bars and posts. Then go carbon frame.

Just my 2 cents experience. I love the harshness except on rocky decents!

Thudbusters are great. Not much weight penalty a couple of hundred grammes IIRC and work really really well – far better than telescopic ones

A flexier post and a saddle with a bit of give will make a difference, but it won’t be that significant – the only thing which will make a big difference is a sus-post, which I’d suggest is what you need to get it anywhere near the full-sus you’re obviously used to. The idea that it’s harsh because it’s an alu frame is a bit laughable though – the difference in vertical flex between that and the softest ti frame is insignificant compared to the give in a 2″ tyre (when you bottom the tyre no hardtail frame will flex more than 1mm!)

The RRP was £500 and at 32lbs or so it was never going to win XC races. Admitedly it was the lowest spec version of the frame though

The bars aren’t really a problem, and the fork is relatively nice.
Its got some 04/05 ish 120mm MX pro’s in, and I had 130mm revs in when the FS was out of action so I’m not thinking of racing it. If I was going to get a new frame I’d be getting a 120/130mm steel frame for the extra give (though will there be much difference?) and actually being designed for a fork that length

Its just seated comfort thats a problem really

Because I can, heres a pic:

Try a WTB Ti railed saddle, CRC had some at a reasonable price a while back, i’ve got a few mates who couldn’t believe how much a set of Ti rails could actually absorb(and the rest of the saddle’s pretty comfy too.).

carbon post will make most difference.

I would get one of these:
http://www.use1.com/products/seat_post_shims/index.php

and a 27.2mm carbon seatpost.

I used to ride a kinesis maxlight pro which was a racing hardtail. I’d stay clear of a suspension seatpost. When it gets bumpy on a hardtail you should be thinking about standing up.

To stop vibrations I’d try tactical use of carbon. On my Road bike the difference a carbon post and forks made is huge. So on a hardtail I’d suggest a carbon post and bars as the best options.

Another vote for Thudbuster here. But, you can get a new 456 for £185.

For a start, it’s got nothing to do with the 6061 rather than 7000 series aluminium – that’s just marketing.

As above, it’s been designed in a certain way and the best you’ll ever do is take the edge off it. A thudbuster as suggested is one way which will make a noticeable difference.

Carbon or Ti bars and/or seatpost will make a tiny difference but not a lot. Though if your frame has a largeish seatpost (ie 30mm +) then a shimmed smaller (eg 27.2) seatpost will be more flexible and make some difference..

Finally, don’t believe all the marketing/bo11ocks spouted about steel always being more comfortable. My Pace 303 (fat alu tubes with 31.6 seatpost) felt marginally more forgiving than the On-one 456 I also had which is steel… Some steel frames are noticeably springy but most of the cheaper ones actually aren’t.

Where are you based? If you’re near sheffield I’ve got a spare USE alien shockpost you could borrow to try. You’d need to get yourself a shim though, but they’re not spendy.

Sounds like time for a new bike with clearance for bigger tyres. I had a Gary Fisher Big Sur and I put big tyres on it for comfort and more technical riding. Really it just wasn’t that kind of bike – so I replaced it with a GF Ged with 2.5 tyres and a big fork. My riding progressed massively with the change.

get a hoss, 456, stiffee, brodie holeshot, sub zero of any other ‘core h/tail’
ride one of those on a rocky trail.
then ride your bike again and realise it is quite comfy and forgiving.. 😆

I owned a kona roast some many years ago now. It was very harsh to ride for anything over about 2 hours with a combination of trail chatter and the odd larger impact, was running 1.8″ tyres too. I was pushing a little too hard with it on one ride and buckled the rear wheel rim. Not enough it wasn’t still useable but you could feel the buckle in every revolution of the wheel. I bought a Koobi PRS saddle, it made a huge difference, I could barely feel the buckle anymore and the chatter was greatly reduced. I quickly replaced the Kona Roast with a different hardtail and after a bit of riding I replaced the aluminium seatpost with a carbon seatpost. The difference was very noticeable, the chatter/vibrations was massively reduced, but the odd jolt from the larger impacts was still there. I have since tried a titanium seatpost and these seem to reduced the vibration and give a more forgiving responce from the larger impacts.
I’d have to say for cost/performace I’d get a decent carbon seatpost, USE are pretty good, and use a good quality saddle designed for comfort. This should make a significant difference over a racey saddle and aluminium seatpost. Ti just costs too much in my opinion.
I recently bought a Chameleon and have had no issue using an aluminium seatpost as I have a Kenda Nevegal 2.35″ with about 35psi in it and find a large tyre volume offers much more relief than all the carbon and titanium bits you can find to add to your bike.
I’d suggest, if you stick with the giant that you get a carbon seatpost and also try carbon bars, they really do make a comfort difference. Otherwise if you get a new frame it doesn’t matter what it’s made of just make sure you can fit a nice big tyre on the back end.

are you running tubeless? I’d stick some mavic/maxxis UST kit on there, should soften it up enough.

One more vote for the thudbuster

Once you start throwing £150 or more of compensating bits onto it, you could have had a frame swap, twice over if you go second hand.

You have a budget 80mm corrected xc race bike there. I’ve used these for years and they are harsh.
Carbon up the bars and post and use if poss 25.4 bars. Mine also use the cheap San Marco SKN saddles that have very flexible bases.
Tune the forks properly.
Use quality tyres, Schwalbes are nice, though rear clearance is a bit of an issue.

Though IMO you would be better of changing the frame.

“i’ve got a few mates who couldn’t believe how much a set of Ti rails could actually absorb”
The SDG Bel Air was a Ti one

“When it gets bumpy on a hardtail you should be thinking about standing up”
I do do that (same with the FS), but its when its on pedally flat bits and climbs and slightly rough that its an issue.

“Where are you based? If you’re near sheffield”
I’m based in durham at the mo, thanks for the offer though

“replaced it with a GF Ged with 2.5 tyres and a big fork. My riding progressed massively with the change”
I’ve got the FS for that, the HT is more for local XCy stuff and goes to a 1×9 setup a fair bit. I’m not quite upto SS (yet).
When the FS was broken for a bit last summer, I had the 130mm revs off it, a 2.25″ advantage/2.5″ high roller up front and 2.1″ kenda on the rear and it was really good.

“then ride your bike again and realise it is quite comfy and forgiving.. “
It could still be made better though

“are you running tubeless?”
No, I’m not sure I want to invest in it that much. Its the spare/local bike, and gets leftover bits from the FS.
I’ve hit the rim with 2″ mud Xs at 40psi down steps before, so not sure lower pressures would work that well (with narrow tyres on)?

“You have a budget 80mm corrected xc race bike there”
I know, well the one above was. Mine (the SE) came with a 100mm (never got more than 60/70mm) Marzocchi MZ fork with a ride hieght only 5mm lower than the 120mm MX thats stuck on it now. Thats my excuse (to myslef) to run it anyhow

“Carbon up the bars and post and use if poss 25.4 bars”
Bars are 25.4mm. The front ends not so much of an issue, just the seated comfort for the slightly rough pedally ups/alongs.

Right, so the general concensus is 27.2 USE carbon post (shimmed) if I keep it, else maybe a thudbuster, but at that price I could get a new frame, though it may not have much more give, if any. A more expensive (soul? altitude 853? (sirrus?)) might ‘give’ a bit more on the rear end

Though if your frame has a largeish seatpost (ie 30mm +) then a shimmed smaller (eg 27.2) seatpost will be more flexible and make some difference..

I did this went from a 29.8 (nice sizing decathlon?!) to a shimmed 27.2, made a world of difference

I have a ’93 Zaskar which is really unforgiving, and with a Thomson post in pretty uncomfortable to ride. Swapped over to a Ti post with a Gobi saddle and haven’t looked back. It’s the most pleasurable experience your arse can have without going into a whole new topic…

When the FS was broken for a bit last summer, I had the 130mm revs off it, a 2.25″ advantage/2.5″ high roller up front and 2.1″ kenda on the rear and it was really good.

There’s your fix then! I’m for having all my bikes set up to be “really good” as in fun and capable of technical riding. Mountain biking is supposed to be fun. Why have a fun FS bike and a less fun hardtail?

“Why have a fun FS bike and a less fun hardtail?”

On the largely nothingy local XC stuff the hardtail is more fun as its quicker (being a better fit for pedally stuff) and I can leave it with quicker tyres on, so for that, the HT is more fun.

When it was built up with the 130mm revs and bigger tyres, it was fun, but it was still VERY umcomfortable

Unfortuanetly the HT ends up being more fun on steep stuff given the seatpost will move about 200mm from pedalling position (ie completely out the way), whereas the FS will only drop 90mm, not sure I want to sell the frame and go to say a hemlock as it’d be pretty costly

If all my bikes (theres only one more – a rigid commuter) then I’d have even more problems trying to choose which one to ride at any given oppurtunity, and they’d all be slow and less capable on the ups. Besides I’ve not got enough bits to go round to make them all burly

I used to ride my hardtail with a thudbuster. Then I started riding a road bike. The thudbuster just seems like overkill now and the hardtail is comfy enough without it.

Second hand thudbuster anyone?

james,
i have the same frame from the same year,
unfortunately the XTC is just a super stiff frame,
and i dont think there is anyway of getting around it to be honest,
its a proper XC race frame, light and unforgiving. very direct!

i like the frame, i swap and ride my brothers steel frame sometines and it feels floppy to me and cant quite get used to it 😀

if you cant live with it i’d bite the bullet and change frames,
lots of second hand frames knocking about in the classifieds,

unfortunately the XTC is just a super stiff frame,

I’m going to make a machine to measure flex. I don’t believe half this stuff any more.

That’d be good brant – IIRC from a some FEA modelling for a uni project, the top tube is pretty critical in determining how much ‘flex’ there will be in the frame and I guess that looking at lots of the new carbon road bikes which are designed for more comfort (eg Spesh Roubaix), they all have noticeably profiled top tubes (usually very skinny when looked at side on.

the top tube is pretty critical in determining how much ‘flex’ there will be in the frame

That has always been my opinion. Certainly not rear stays!

Another vote for the Thudbuster. I’ve got a Nicolai Argon which is a particularly stiff frame (I’m sure other owners would agree), which is great in some ways – but if I’m doing an all-dayer on it – I swap my normal seatpost for the thudbuster, which takes all the harshness out of the ride. The action feels a bit odd though to me – completely different from the “full-suss” feeling. I got mine direct from the Us at the point where $:£ was pretty much 2:1 – so it wasn’t that expensive an option at that point.

There was a thread on the old forum which had links to some video of a frame being tested and flexed. I can’t remember what it was though. The amount of flex was amazing, although which part of the frame was flexing I couldn’t say. Anyone remember this and have a link?

http://www.astroeng.com.tw/company-now.asp#testingfacility

Though that’s a test, not riding. Which is a bit of a bone of contention amongst many designers.

“I can’t really get bigger than a 2.1″ Kenda in the rear either, as the dropouts are worn to the point the tyre can buzz the chainstays under pedalling.”

Rekon your wheel needs a re tension…

Brant – that was the one. Ta

I guess the Thudbuster is an acquired taste. I utterly hated mine. It felt like I had a slow puncture on the rear tyre and on climbs it felt I was slipping/losing grip on muddy conditions. Awful. Some people might like them but if I was looking for comfort (as above)
Ti railed saddle
Carbon or ti post
carbon bars
and bigger volume rear tyre.
On their own the above’s benefits would be too miniscule to benefit but combined they would all add up. Plus, you wont have to waste money on a gawd-awful fugly Thudbuster.