Edukator – Troll
Food gets into your body through your mouth, some of it gets converted into energy, don’t consume more than you need.

So did you a) not read the links, or b) not understand them? They come from someone who is part of the peer-reviewed scientific community.

If we’re now talking about getting ill after a hard training session or race then there are studies to show that the immune system is suppressed by hard exercise giving viruses and bacteria people would normally fight off the opportunity to take hold.

Thanks for bringing it back on topic gents, I dunno if I just didn’t have a cold and the exercise made it worse. I went for a hard ride last night and feel fine this morning. Love and kisses to all.

Body builders eat carbs and inject insulin. And some end up in comas. Body builders need to be able to work hard and need glycogen in their muscles just as much as endurance athletes.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqXR1PzPClY[/video]

Of course they need carbs. The OP is talking about loosing weight. Body builders will cut the carbs and the insulin when they want to shed the body fat.

Body builders inject insulin to put on muscle without putting on fat in the first place.

In over half a century on this planet I’ve yet to meet one. Every person I’ve lived close enough to to judge fits the simple model “you are what you eat”.

Sorry, but (for once) I’m with Molgrips on this.

I’m 6’2″ and until I was 24 never weighed more than 11 stone. Very active. I then got married and within a year I’d put on 1 stone. through not been active and eating well. From the age of 25 to 40 my weight varied between 11 1/2 stone to 12 1/2 stone with little or no exercise.

At the age of 40 I took up MTB. My weight since then has been in the 12 stone to 12 1/2 stone bracket.

I have eaten the same my entire life, basic principle is “you never know where your next meal is coming from” – usually have two hot meals a day, plus breakfast, mid-morning snacks and supper.

My Father (who is in his 80’s and still has two course for both lunch and dinner) and pretty much all the male relatives on his side have been the same. None of us overweight in any way, and most white-collar workers.

So I do have some sympathy for some fat folk, just not for those who can’t accept that if you are pre-deposed to be fat then you MUST watch what you eat and MUST exercise.

If you inject insulin my friend you will get fat with high carbs guarenteed, bodybuilder or not. The reason bodybuilders take insulin is because they also inject human growth hormone and igf1 ( insulin like ggrowth factor). This is their muscle building stage and has nothing to.do.with diet, the bodybuilders will be t their highest fat level when doing this. We are talking about LOOSING weight. When it comes time to loose weight the bodybuilder will stop taking the hgh and insulin and eat a VERY VERY low carb diet. They will also change the testosterone they normally use for masterone to push the water out of the skin and then finally diuretics.
You went off subject again as we are talking about loosing weight.

Chaps, I think the Troll moniker on Edukators name tag tells us something. DO NOT FEED HIM.

Meanwhile thanks for a great discussion. When you filter out the crap there is always soemthing to learn here.

I responded to others posters’ references to body builders and team Sky. Insulin use allows body builders to put on very little fat even during the muscle building phase. Beta agonists also help with putting on lean muscle, something endurance athletes have known for years hence the 70% of elite triathletes having medical certificates for asthma in the 90s.

Edit: my point being that the eating habits of drug fueled athletes are not a useful model to copy for weekend MTB warriors trying to maintain a healthy weight.

What did you eat yesterday?

So we found the level of Edukator’s peer reviewed scientific arguments, I see.

To the OP: could be just transient illness hangover, as you said. There have been loads of illnesses this year. I also sometimes get bugs of some kind but don’t really have symptoms until I try and exercise.

but don’t really have symptoms until I try and exercise.

this could easily be it.

If Drac, a moderator with medical knowledge, thinks I’m trolling on this thread then I will make no further posts on it without any need for a warning or ban, just the words “I think you’re trolling”.

Back on topic: not eating enough during endurance exercise has also been linked to suppressing the immune system. Eating a moderate amount of carbs during exercise can help with weight loss it facilitates fat burning. Don’t starve yourself when out on the bike even if you want to lose weight. Carbs, for example fruit, in the first half an hour after exercise will be used to replace glycogen stocks rather than go to fat meaning that effective training will be possible the next day.

Back on topic: not eating enough during endurance exercise has also been linked to suppressing the immune system.

This certainly tallies with my experience. This is why eat less move more can be problematic – if I move more I have to eat more. So it’s a question of how I move and what and when I eat.

However I don’t rate fruit for recovery after exercise. Peer reviewed scientific research suggests HIGH GI carbs immediately after exercise, and fruit is low.

He’s not trolling he knows what he’s talking about, the message is off tangent. I was reffering to the a calorie is a calorie for loosing weight and that you will loose weight but the results being different. So by saying an endurance athlete needs high carbs is exactly the same as what I’m saying. Feed your body for what you intend to use it for but keep the calories at a deficit if you want to loose weight.

Your wrong about insulin though, they take it to force food into the muscles nothing to do with keeping fat low, it’s the growth that keeps them super lean. Look at Lee priest off season and tell me the insulin is keeping them lean.

Leaner than he’d be without it.

“This certainly tallies with my experience. This is why eat less move more can be problematic – if I move more I have to eat more. “

When did eating more become the issue ?

some people dont get the whole move more eat less thing. its not move more – eat less than if you were sedentary.

its move more and eat less than you would have given you moved that much.

if you eat less than you did sedentary and expect to exercise as well – of course your going to get ill.

Then there is also the initial period when you start to exercise where you will gain weight – you gain weight as you are gaining muscle to put up with the exercise. this muscle weighs more than fat. this weight works in your weight loss favour – the more muscle massyou have the more your body burns sat at your desk.

when it comes to weight loss there is still no substitute for the quantity of weight loss that comes from a balanced diet & general exercise. Anyone can lose weight by not eating but its not good quality weight loss , you’ll be losing alot of muscle doing that.

Gotta feed the machine.

just be clear, I am not doing anything quickly.. Just trying to make a lifestyle change.

Good on you. I stopped exercise for 2-3 years, just couldnt be bothered with it, more important things in life.

WHen I started again I couldnt believe the pain, and the way my body reacted, and I was only about 1 stone over weight. I found it very frustrating that I could do very little and that I appeared to have zero exercise tolerence.

Im now 2 1/2 back in to getting fit and it has taken that long to feel moderately fit again (doesnt help now being 40).

My adivce would be take your time, do things slowly, could down on crap in your diet, but do not stop eating, do not stop eating stuff you enjoy. Over time fitness will return and weight loss will happen, but expect neither over night.

when it comes to weight loss there is still no substitute for the quantity of weight loss that comes from a balanced diet & general exercise.

I suspect this is not true, or at least not specific enough with terms like ‘balanced diet’ and ‘general exercise’. There is definitely more than one way to skin this particular cat.

I don’t know what the medical explanation for this is, but there is definitely a period of adjustment to new exercise during which the body protests, throwing up weird symptoms. I’ve had this with starting out cycling seriously, taking up running and most recently with swimming. The latter, after only a short swim I’d be ravenous, but now I can swim a fair distance without terrible hunger pangs and faintness afterwards.

This phenomenon seems to abate with reiterated training. I’ve found that tolerating some moderate feelings of hunger after a big run or ride leads to consistent weight loss. I also eat less on a big ride and don’t eat at all during big runs, whereas I used to ‘bonk’ hard (tee hee) if I didn’t eat consistently over distances. Body processes change as you put different demands on the body.

When it comes to weight loss, all I know is that I personally react well to prolonged exercise, and it’s correlated with a decent ish diet, low sugar and avoidance of alcohol. Even a week of low volume training and high alcohol consumption and the pounds pile on and any long bouts of exercise feel horrible. But it’s a shorter distance back to race weight than the prospect of being 3 stone over weight. I’d say I’ve shed about a stone per year of consistent exercise and alcohol awareness.

Can’t claim to speak for anyone else though. And body builder diets – that’s some dark science, don’t go there!

see i suspect people that say things like that are fat and unfit and looking for an excuse to justify it.

Like what? You referring to me?

i was actually yes , generalising.

the post between popped up between me reading and me posting.

.toys19 – Member
I’m about 4/5 stone overweight.

. Well that explains a lot.

Every time I do some exercise, it makes me ill the next day, not too bad, but fluish aches and pains and cold like sneezing/runny nose.

I have heard that your fat contains loads of toxins, and that when you lose weight your body processes those toxins and that makes you feel crap.

Is there any truth in this
this just sounds like an excuse not to exercise. A good session should make you feel sore/ache/possibly make you feel ill if you over do it but I doubt that in your case!
Twice a week I eat nothing all day until about 8pm never feel ill or tired for that matter no matter how much exercise I do, although I would assume there must be a limit. Fetching a load of shopping from a supermarket 12 miles from my house using a well filled trailer had no effect. I dropped 1.5 stone this way in 5 weeks. Never felt ill at anytime.

. Well that explains a lot.

What does it explain?

but I doubt that in your case!

What do you doubt? That I would over do it?

.alaslas – Member

Even a week of low volume training and high alcohol consumption and the pounds pile on and any long bouts of exercise feel horrible. But it’s a shorter distance back to race weight than the prospect of being 3 stone over weight. I’d say I’ve shed about a stone per year of consistent exercise and alcohol awareness.

Can’t agree with you reference alcohol consumption I find a 60 mile pub crawl on my bike still results in weight loss.

So what works for sd-253 must work for everyone, right?

see i suspect people that say things like that are fat and unfit and looking for an excuse to justify it.

Or, put another way – the people to whom it does not apply succeeded, and the ones to whom it does apply found it hard. The former group, not having encountered a problem, would not be aware of it.

They would then post on the internet denigrating people who have had the problem and deny its existence – based on their own experience.

exactly, or put another way, anecdotes don’t make science.

.toys19 – Member
Dont worry boys, one day they will prove that being bigoted is not something you can choose to do, you just can’t help it. So then us bigot baiters will be the bad guys.

Or put another way agree with toys R us or your a bigot. Bigot appears to be your word for the day…every day!!
I think people who are fat eat to much…opps that makes me a bigot or possibly Toy R us is a fan of censorship?

.molgrips – Member
So what works for sd-253 must work for everyone, right?

Hard work works for everyone wherever your talking about exercise or calorie control.

Yep. But not everyone needs to work hard.

Exactly what that hard work should entail to achieve your aims, thought – that is another question.

.molgrips – Member
Yep. But not everyone needs to work hard.

Exactly what that hard work should entail to achieve your aims, thought – that is another question
How hard you work is directly related to how much you stuff your face assuming you are talking about keeping your weight under control. I am writing about calories not volume of food. ie a
100grms of salad leaves = 16 calories.
A kilo of salad leaves = 160 calories.
100grms of Olive oil = 900 calories
A kilo of Olive oil = 9000 calories

A 10 hour cycle ride at about 10 miles an hour burns on average 2500 calories.

Calories in calories out. It isn’t hard….unless you want it to be

.molgrips – Member
Yep. But not everyone needs to work hard

?? Not sure what you mean by that? Does only eating 500 calories a day twice a week constitute working hard? Obviously eating vast amounts of calories will require you to do exceptional if not impossible amounts of exercise.

. CaptJon – Member
So you’re saying energy into your body, not energy into your mouth?

What Captjon are you burbling about?

Not sure what you mean by that?

What I said earlier. Some people stay skinny whatever they do.

I’m a skinny whatever I do kinda guy. Practically lived out a kebab shop for 2 years and never hit 10st (5ft11) with a slightly active job but no other exercise.

Now I have a less active job but eat better and now exercise 4-5 times a week to put on weight and that is hard work.

Go figure…

A little aside here, the amount of calories you get out of two what appear to be exactly the same foods are not the same. The greater you process a food the easier it passes through your stomach walls and into your blood and so on. Or put another way the more calories you get out of it. We as in humans took processing food so as to get more calories Out of it. The start was cooking food which will give you more calories than eating anything raw. Porridge I believe is an example the more the oats are processed the more calories you get out of it. Those little packets of “oats so simple” are highly processed therefore you get more calories out than if you eat unprocessed oats. How much extra doesn’t appear to be easily measurable.

mssansserif – Member
I’m a skinny whatever I do kinda guy. Practically lived out a kebab shop for 2 years and never hit 10st (5ft11) with a slightly active job but no other exercise.

Now I have a less active job but eat better and now exercise 4-5 times a week to put on weight and that is hard work.

Go figure
God how many times have I heard that? You have never checked your calories used and eaten so how do you know? And slightly active job which lasts for 8 hours would burn more calories than a 1 hour hard workout. A recent programme had 2 friends they both insisted they eat the same amount of calories. They did not live together so how would they know? Science can now actually tell how much a person eats (via urine samples. Both women were lying blatantly the fat one (12″shorter than thin one) eat far more calories than thin one. The thin one was seriously underweight and lying about the calories she eat she seriously under estimated her calorie consumption. Until you actually do the maths I suggest you go figure!