[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzL0Kyk4m-8&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I cant quite believe this. Terrifying really.

What is the answer here though? Redesign of lorry mirrors? Banning of large vehicles like that in congested areas?

Any solution should focus on the safety of cyclists rather than the convenience of haulage firms though. I suspect that this will be the sticking pioint in any attepts to find a workable solution.

And that is PRECISELY why you don’t go up the inside of trucks at junctions.

The first part of the answer is not to go up the inside of a lorry or any vehicle for that matter.

Been done… but worth doing again..

Don’t step into traffic, drive slower on wet roads, don’t drive drunk, keep well away from lorries when you’re on the bike. You might die.

And that is PRECISELY why you don’t go up the inside of trucks at junctions.

I recently witnessed a potentially very nasty situation at Blackfriars junction with Fleet St. An articulated lorry pulled up to the junction, where there were already several cyclists waiting, and went over the advanced stop line (designed to enhance the safety of cyclists at junctions). when the lights turned green, he then immediately turned left, even though there is a clearly marked cylce lane, forcing several cyclists into taking evasive action. it’s very lucky no-one was hurt. I sprinted in up the outside and shouted at him to look where he was going, but he just swore at me and shouted ‘you ****ing cyclists shouldn’t be on the ****ing road’. I can’t beleive he hadn’t seen any of the cyclists, as it was broad daylight. He just didn’t care.

The onus should always be on those driving large potentially lethal vehicles, more than on cyclists. especially in built-up areas. I’ve been forced to brake suddenly to avoid being crushed by large trucks which have overtaken me then turned left (often without signalling).

That exaggerates the problem and gives drivers an excuse, the mirrors were adjusted to show the same angle, and the slight turn of the cab pointed them both back at at the truck. Still possible that the scenario could happen in reality and cyclists should be aware of the dangers and not go upside the inside of trucks, but lets also not make excuses for drivers not being aware of their surroundings.

Conversely, I find HGV drivers are terrific – WAY better than the rest of the muppets on the road. You just don’t go up the inside of them. Simples.

I cant quite believe this. Terrifying really.

Not really, unless you’ve never been in a lorry. Even a car has blind spots and/or ‘blind’ drivers.

I’ve always worked on the principle that a driver hasn’t seen me, even when they are looking directly at me, kept me alive for +30 yrs of m/c and cycling.

Conversely, I find HGV drivers are terrific – WAY better than the rest of the muppets on the road. You just don’t go up the inside of them. Simples.

+1.
Generally far and away the best drivers on the road SO LONG AS you treat them with immense respect. Frankly if you’re daft enough to go anywhere near them when they’re trying to manoeuvre, you deserve everything you get.

Hmmm, not convinced that’s a particularly good example. Cab is at an angle, driver appears to be Janette Krankie’s height and both truck and cyclists appear to have been dropped out of the sky.

As an occasional LGV driver (just a “wee” 7.5 tonner), if mirrors are properly adjusted then blind spots should be minimised.

Any lorry driver that gets himself in that position without seeing those cyclists needs re-training.
Conversely. Any cyclist that decides to go up the inside of lorries and buses also need educating.

Although its not just limited to cyclists. A lot of car drivers are just as bad for not understanding the risks involved in being anywhere near big vehicles in built up areas

An articulated lorry pulled up to the junction, where there were already several cyclists waiting, and went over the advanced stop line

Somewhere on the chassis on the left hand side of the trailer will be a valve that looks like this. 😉

Not on all trailers mtqg. Some are on the headboard or opposite side 🙂

I drive HGV’s and always hang back until I can safely overtake a cyclist. Today I waited for nearly 5 minutes following a rider through the steets, managed to get past then stopped for lights further down road only to have the rider shoot up the inside and get in front again.
There are faults on both sides.

[/quote]The onus should always be on those driving large potentially lethal vehicles, more than on cyclists.

I know what you’re saying, and I agree to a point.
But, (nutters aside) there’s only 2 ways a situation like the OP could occur
1) Lorry gets there first
2) Cyclist gets there first

If you go up the inside of a lorry it’s your own bleeding fault if he doesn’t see you.

there’s ignorance in all riders/drivers and it’s only when the two meet is when we have trouble

That said, that truck has taken a fairly manufactured wide turn to exaggerate the point, he’s blocking the incoming lane and (im not) but If I were a truck driver approaching a load of cyclists I’d wait until they had exited the junction, they’d be in front of me not at the side of me

that truck has taken a fairly manufactured wide turn to exaggerate the point

Not really. 13.6m trailer round a sharp corner like that, you need both lanes on entry and exit.

5secs in, both mirrors are half ‘full’ of just the cab. Obviously they’re trying to show a point but in what situation is this useful? The other half of the mirror is to the end of the trailer.
If the mirror was adjusted more so that the ‘inside’ half of the mirror was the back of the cab to the back of the trailer then there’d be the ‘outside’ half of the mirror looking to the side of the trailer. Granted once he turns (more) then you’d only be seeing the trailer, but as it is as soon as it turns you’re not even going to see the trailer itself.

That and the bottom mirror appears to be a flat mirror? If it were more convex although the image would be a bit more difficult to make out at first glance you’d be able to see much more?

its always the cyclist who is going to get hurt, and its always the driver of the lgv, who gets a fine or a ban or prison.

Respect lgv,s and keep well away, like car drivers not all are as skilled as others.

As a guide when youre next in a large office or corridor,place your chair to the right, now measure 40 foot behind it and place another chair, then get somebody to hold a small bathroom mirror to your right and another one 8 foot to your left, then ask someone to walk both sides of of you, at different speeds, from 40 foot back, then imagine controling the speed of LGV, with your feet, while steering with both hands, and checking both mirrors, all while driving at 30 mph.

Easy isnt it.

[/quote]The onus should always be on those driving large potentially lethal vehicles, more than on cyclists.

I know what you’re saying, and I agree to a point.
But, (nutters aside) there’s only 2 ways a situation like the OP could occur
1) Lorry gets there first
2) Cyclist gets there first

If you go up the inside of a lorry it’s your own bleeding fault if he doesn’t see you.

To be frank – if as a cyclist you pass any vehicle on the left you’re asking for trouble – lorrys are double the trouble as their blind spot it bigger and the road they use when turning is bigger, but cyclists will get into the same kind of trouble passing or moving into space of the left of any kind of vehicle. Thats why (and because) theres a long standing etiquette of passing on the right.

What is a massive shame is that significant chunk of the investment into cycle infrastructure has been used to paint lanes on the road that direct cyclist to put themselves exactly in harms way at junctions.

One day (when I can be arsed) I’ll take a photo of just how large an item I can hide in the blind spot of a transit size van

To be frank – if as a cyclist you pass any vehicle on the left you’re asking for trouble – lorrys are double the trouble as their blind spot it bigger and the road they use when turning is bigger, but cyclists will get into the same kind of trouble passing or moving into space of the left of any kind of vehicle. Thats why (and because) theres a long standing etiquette of passing on the right.

And it’s why in Greece (for example) pretty much all large commercial vehicle have an arrow (usually on a mudflap or tailgate) pointing to the offside and a “no entry” sign on the nearside.
I’d never consider passing anything on the nearside – and I’ve had nothing but good experiences of truck and bus drivers. Some of the best on the road, in my opinion.

I think most Greek bus drivers are superb BTW, – they make turning something like a Mercedes Travego in a little village square look like a piece of piss……

I have to disagree with those who like HGV drivers. I find virtually all of those who drive for a living inconsiderate drivers. The attitude is that I do it for a living so I know better and also that I do it for a living so I cannot be held up in anyway. Bus drivers are awful as a breed as are couriers and artic drivers. Equally reps and mini bus drivers. Taxis are the bloody worst.
Qualifying statement. You may not be included in this generalisation.

Matt pretty much bang on.

I have been a HGV driver on and off since I was in my teens and IME there are muppets riding bikes, driving cars, driving lorries and crossing the road. Its an absolute pain in the arse driving a truck around a city centre and when you do it for a living you have to stick your elbows out a bit to get home on time, trouble is some do this more than others and are a liability.

Being a cyclist as well as a lorry driver I like to think I had more of an understanding than many other HGV drivers and as a result was a bit more aware. IMO.

I have seen some appalling examples of road craft from all types of vehicles and the common factor is the human.

Well said Neil

What is a massive shame is that significant chunk of the investment into cycle infrastructure has been used to paint lanes on the road that direct cyclist to put themselves exactly in harms way at junctions.

not just that, but UK is virtually unique in Europe to place steel railings on the kerb too. OK not everywhere, but there’s your bail-out space gone.
ASL’s may be a safety thing (arguable imho), but the bit up the inside can’t be. Saying that, many of the ones I’ve seen here, the lights go green for the bikes well before the lights go green for motorised traffic, and go red for bikes halfway thru the phase. With a ped crossing between stop line and apex, the bikes really ought to be clear by the time a vehicle wants to turn over the bike stripe. Plus the pedestrian crossing of the road they’re turning into will be green too (in most of EU) so *any* vehicle turning at lights will *always* have to stop and give way and triple check anything/anyone coming up the inside (bike lane or pedestrians) to make the turn.