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Le Tour Rest Day thread

79 posts & 35 voices | Started 10 months ago by headfirst | Latest reply from mrlebowski

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headfirst - Member

With no spoiler thread today, and a very quiet day here at work, I'd thought I'd start this off.

Yesterday I posted a comment early on in the race before it all kicked off that the peleton needs a new 'patron'. I'm even more convinced now after yesterday's madness. Obviously this wouldn't stop cars driving into riders, but it would help to steady things down in dicey situations. Just watched an interview with Cadel, he said that the main group slowed down after the Vino crash, but not everyone. Some tweeters, particularly festinagirl, have spotted a trend of Leopard going to the front and pushing on when a GC guy is stopped or chatting to the team car. We need someone to sort this out.
Now I know I'm gonna get people saying 'it's a race, it's every man for himself' but that just shows a lack of understanding of professional bike racing.

So, I'm after your opinions and, if you agree with me, your nominations for patron.

I'm leaning towards Cadel Evans, I think he's really turned himself around in terms of his public image - no longer psycho spoilt brat - and he earnt my respect in last year's Giro when he turned himself inside out on the Zoncalan.

***PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THE INFERNAL DOPING ARGUMENTS****

Posted 10 months ago #
timbur - Member

Any news on Flecha? I've just watched the highlights of yesterdays stage with my lad and was a bit shocked. Will he continue?

Posted 10 months ago #
whatnobeer - Member

Thought everyone slowed right up yesterday after the big pile up where Vino broke himself. The breakaway guys gained 2/3 minutes there and you could see them all sat up/discussing with the race organisers. Looked like Thor, Gilbert and Spartacus doing the organising. Usually the guy in yellow, pink etc is the guy that takes charge of things like that.

Posted 10 months ago #
headfirst - Member

timbur, this doesn't quite answer your question, from team sky's website:

With Flecha safely back on the team bus Team Principal Dave Brailsford said the team would look at the matter during the rest day, saying: “He’s not the best to be honest. He’s got a very nasty cut and laceration to his knee. His elbow is not good.

“He’s got a lot of whiplash. A bit like being in a car crash really and so whether he can continue or not we don’t know yet.

“We’ve got a rest day tomorrow so we’ll assess him then and take it from there.

“When things like this happen it’s important to stay calm. Obviously there is a lot of emotion amongst the team but we’ve decided that the best thing to do in these situations is to remain calm and assess the situation.

“I’m in contact with the race organisers and we’re deciding on the action we’re going to take and we will comment further tomorrow.”

My guess would be he'll start Tuesday's stage, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets into the team car after a while.

Posted 10 months ago #
headfirst - Member

Usually the guy in yellow, pink etc is the guy that takes charge of things like that.

I can't see anybody outside SaxoBank listening to anything Contador* has to say.

*I refer you to the end of my OP!

Posted 10 months ago #
clubber - Member

There is no patron this year. The patron isn't simply the best rider or anything like that - it's someone that the peloton as a whole respect and/or fear enough to listen to what they say. Lance for good or bad had that position. Contador/Evans/Schleck/anyone else simply don't have that respect across the board.

Posted 10 months ago #
lunge - Member

Someone like Millar would seem like a logical choice. Very experienced, apparently respected in the peleton, seems to be in the front groups the majority of the time.

I'm not sure a real GC contender is the man for the job as they will have other things on their mind.

Posted 10 months ago #
clubber - Member

Millar could give it a go IMO but I don't think he's popular or respected enough across the board for him to be able to do it alone.

Posted 10 months ago #
crazy-legs - Member

I said this on another thread yesterday - there's no one strong team that can control things effectively. Even HTC's lead-out train, probably the best in the world, don't always have it their way. Compare it with Cipo's old Saeco lead out train in the 90's, nothing ever came close to them!

In the same way, Lance Armstrong had pretty much absolute control over the bunch - no break succeeded without his tacit agreement and he had a team strong enough to dominate the race most of the time.

Millar and Cancellara are two of the most respected people in the peloton at the moment (look at Millar's behaviour on the stage of the Giro the day after Wouter Weylandt was killed, he handled it perfectly). But everyone knows that neither of those two are GC contenders so they don't have quite the same clout when they're not in yellow/pink...

Posted 10 months ago #
llama - Member

This year the crashes are having a big impact on the GC. Lots of riders out who would have had a chance of a top 10, and Contador down by 1:40. I can't remember there being so many crashes before - not to be having such an inluence on the overall race.

OK it has been wet and windy - but it has been before without so many accidents. So why is this happening? Luck? The route?

Anyway Spartacus seems to step into the Patron role - eg. last year's neutralised stage finish - he was one of the leaders for that was he not? With all the crashes this year I'm a little surprised the riders haven't done something similar.

Had an each way bet on Vino

Posted 10 months ago #
MrsMugsy - Member

The other day there was a guy on the radio saying that when something happens to the guy in the peleton who 'initiate' the pile up, there's a scream or a shout or something like that that the riders senses/hear which makes them be careful and the pileups are smaller.
Nowadays at least half the peloton has at anyone time, a directeur sportif who shouts stuff in the ear piece, so they don't get the warning and hence the huge pileups.

Posted 10 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

think it died a bit last year when the maillot Jaune was attacked during a mechanical last year
I would help but it seems like the unwritten code is breaking down.

Posted 10 months ago #
warton - Member

Leopard upped the pace quite a bit when Wiggins went down a few days ago, Spartacus is only interested when its one of his guys down

Posted 10 months ago #
whatnobeer - Member

Last years 'mechanical' was entirely his own fault and so I dont think attacking was all that much out of order. Although the French didnt like it at the time.

Warton is right, Spartacus is only bothered when its his own team who is on the road. Miller or Thor would be good, but as stated above if they're not in yellow or pink they maybe dont have enough clout.

Posted 10 months ago #
yossarian - Member

The peleton seems to be in transition at the minute. Whether its a post Armstrong thing or a Contador related issue, or something else, there seems to be a certain amount of distrust. It's a bit more cut-throat, and dare I say it, a bit more exciting as a result.

My vote would be for Spartacus, but he's not a GC contender so perhaps doesn't have the leverage. Evans? Well I think he needs to win something first...

Posted 10 months ago #
headfirst - Member

There is no patron this year.

That was the point I was making in my OP, n'est pas?

the crux of the matter:

it seems like the unwritten code is breaking down.

How does this problem get fixed? Or is it not a problem?

Posted 10 months ago #
clubber - Member

Well yes but then you're going on to suggest people who could be. My point was really that there isn't anyone in the peloton at the moment who can be the patron - almost by definition if there isn't anyone who is the patron then it's because there isn't one. The patron doesn't wait to be asked...

Posted 10 months ago #
headfirst - Member

Oh I see, misunderstood you there slightly, I see your point now you've made it better

I think I was trying to say was 'who do you see stepping up to the job' in due course, as we could with one sooner rather than later. i agree there is no obvious candidate putting themself forward - and as you say, they are 'self-appointed'.

Who was the Italian that Lance had a grudge against who basically got shut out by the peleton? I want to say Cippollini, but I don't think so...

Posted 10 months ago #
matt_bl - Member

yossarian - Member
The peleton seems to be in transition at the minute. Whether its a post Armstrong thing or a Contador related issue, or something else, there seems to be a certain amount of distrust. It's a bit more cut-throat, and dare I say it, a bit more exciting as a result.

My vote would be for Spartacus, but he's not a GC contender so perhaps doesn't have the leverage. Evans? Well I think he needs to win something first...

What, world championship maybe? Cadel's palmares are up there with the top 1-2% of the peleton.

Matt

Posted 10 months ago #
yossarian - Member

What, world championship maybe? Cadel's palmares are up there with the top 1-2% of the peleton.

Dunno really, I get the impression that the patron needs be successful to be fully respected. I'm not sure the Evans falls into that category yet.

Posted 10 months ago #
clubber - Member

Evans is plenty successful enough but just doesn't have the right personality which is what it's really about.

Eg - Big Mig was never the patron.

Posted 10 months ago #
yossarian - Member

What sort of personality clubber? I would have thought that Evans was the right kind of guy, not confrontational enough?

Posted 10 months ago #
clubber - Member

Probably, yeah - and tbh, much as I like Evans as a rider, I think he's not universally liked for his personality and doesn't have enough fear to cancel that out (as per Armstrong).

Posted 10 months ago #
breatheeasy - Member

Dunno, not sure if I would back off for drug cheat to get back on his bike.

Regarding Wiggins if you see the reaction that Cav did post-win maybe the communication isn't as brilliant as we think it is.

I suspect in times to come the 'unwritten rule' will become more and more forgotten. Probably down to money.

Sponsor - "so why didn't you win that stage after all the money we give you?"
Rider - "well, a rider from your competitors got a mechanical so we all slowed down and let him get back into the pack and subsequently win the race".

Sad but true. Don't see McLaren or Ferrari backing off if the Red Bull has an issue with it's gearbox.

Posted 10 months ago #
headfirst - Member

Maybe The Badger* needs to organise a rider's meeting, especially for the youngsters? He's there on the podium everyday...

*linky for those who don't know, not trying to patronise anybody - see what I did there??

Posted 10 months ago #
anotherdeadhero - Member

If Le Tour continues in this vein, it may breed a bit more fraternité ...

Sparticus could step up if he wanted to.

Posted 10 months ago #
clubber - Member

Yeah, I agree actually - Cancellara is the obvious choice though he may have to tweak his team's behaviour a bit (not pushing the pace whenever any other team's GC leaders crash)

Posted 10 months ago #
headfirst - Member

Forgive me, but how does Cancellara cope in the high mountains? Is he in the grupetto? Don't think you can run things from there.

Posted 10 months ago #
anotherdeadhero - Member

So you want a brick of a man who can keep up with whippet types?

He is not a police force who needs to be constantly in attendance. He is just a force, who you know will be disapproving if you're a naughty boy. So if you transgress, you know everyone will shun you.

Frankly, if you're off the front, you're off the front and good luck to you. Most of the really big pile ups this year Cancellara was there.

Whether he would want to stand up is another question.

Posted 10 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

Hincapie or Jens Voigt are two candidates for patron.

Posted 10 months ago #
clubber - Member

Doesn't matter in the mountains - there's not a huge pack there. The patron's job is when the majority of the field is together.

Hincapie and jens - sure both could do it and they're well respected (Hincapie less so IMO due to the lance connection) but I reckon that both are really just good team captains rather than patrons.

The more I think about it, the patron almost always has an element of ruling by fear and I just don't see that in the current peloton.

Posted 10 months ago #
mattsccm - Member

Jens?

Posted 10 months ago #
warton - Member

another thing I noticed yesterday. Twice now Contador has been off the bag due to crashes, both times no Saxobank riders have aced him back on to the peloton. coincidence or something deeper?

Posted 10 months ago #
clubber - Member

It's radioshack jamming the Saxobank radio frequencies

Posted 10 months ago #
headfirst - Member

Jens Voigt:good shout, but he must surely be retiring soon, he's the same age as me!!

some 'shut up legs' fun

Posted 10 months ago #