• This topic has 26 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 13 years ago by aP.
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  • LBS knowledge limitation
  • Xylene
    Free Member

    So I popped into one of my LBS in Newcaste to look at their CX and road bikes. The possiblity of me purchasing it from a LBS is high. So I want a decent idea of what is being offered to me.

    The lad who was working there although appearing very fashionable and skater like, could barely string a sentence together about the bikes in the shop. Knew nothing about the road and cx bikes.

    Questions like which would really be better for my commute – road or cx.
    WHy don’t I try a hybrid that would probably do me for a commute.

    Told him I was interested in cx or road again. Which does he recommend.
    Any really. That one would do be fine. A vague gesture to a couple of potential bikes.
    Which one in particlar?
    Maybe that kinesis.

    It was like getting blood out of a stone getting any sort of usuable reply from him.

    Shame as on other times in the shop I’ve been given A+ service from them.

    grumble over

    MrNutt
    Free Member

    you should have just laid on the floor until help arrived.

    racefaceec90
    Full Member

    i reckon you should go for a cx bike. 1.it wouldn’t be much slower than a road bike. 2. would be able to handle potholes e.t.c way better than a road bike. 3.you could do some green lane riding (it would open up more possible riding routes (say you are riding somewhere new,and you spot an interesting gravel track e.t.c) 4. some come fitted with disc brakes/way better stopping power. i would love to get a cx bike (just cannot afford one at present) just my thoughts 🙂

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    peterfile
    Free Member

    The lad who was working there although appearing very fashionable

    Which is why he would probably know bugger all about CX or road bikes 😉

    7hz
    Free Member

    Sounds like you asked vague questions, and got vague answers.

    I guess you could commute on most any bike, it isn’t a particularly specialised things commuting.

    You need to really decide for yourself whether you want a road or a CX bike to do your commute on. Going on some shop assistants opinion is not really valid, unless they know you.

    hexhamstu
    Free Member

    Which shop?

    Xylene
    Free Member

    ^ I’ve pretty much come to that conclusion myself.

    Still would have liked at least a modicum of enthusiasm and knowledge.

    I really liked the look of the Kineses frame as well.

    I might go back at the weekend and see if they have the other people in who can help me.

    aP
    Free Member

    Well here’s someone who doesn’t know too much about road or cx bikes either.

    2. would be able to handle potholes e.t.c way better than a road bike.

    Could you explain why you think this please?

    mudpup
    Free Member

    So you asked his advice about a bike for your commute and he suggested a commuting bike as opposed to a road/cx bike?
    A truly heinous crime.

    warton
    Free Member

    which shop? I can’t think of a shop in newcastle that sells Kineses…

    how far is your commute? I do 8/10 miles each way and I ride a genesis day one, singlespeed. CX .hasslefree, just change the tyres!

    JoB
    Free Member

    WHy don’t I try a hybrid that would probably do me for a commute.

    he was right, unless it’s you that wants to appear very fashionable

    peterfile
    Free Member

    I think the problem that most LBS face (like ski shops) is that a large majority of people don’t actually know what they are talking about, even though they think they sound like they do (e.g. people who have only ever owned one bike but have read every magazine to hit the shelves).

    When I was a student I worked in a ski/snowboard shop, and it was almost guaranteed that someone would come in an “test” your knowledge by citing every fact about a particular ski that had no real world relevance whatsoever, yet when you tried to get to the bottom of their style of skiing so that you could start to find some suitable skis, they clearly hadn’t progressed beyond snow plough but had spent the last 51 weeks since their last holiday reading nothing but ski reviews and were keen to impart everything they had learned as if they had picked it up on the slopes.

    Same with MTB. I absolutely cringe when i’m in my LBS at times (Stif, although not so local anymore). Watching grown men “pump” the suspension on a V10 and tell the shop assistant that they would be able to tear it down the Descent Line at nearby Stainburn (which is effectively a XC route with a bit extra gravitational assistance), waste about 20 mins of his time talking like they are about to nail Steve Peat in the next round of the WC, and then leave the shop after 3 coffees, asking for a “good puncture repair kit” on the way out.

    The abundance of part time staff in specialist sports shops also doesn’t help. I would imagine that it’s difficult to know everything about everything when you only work 8 hours on a Saturday so you can get staff discount on new bike kit

    racefaceec90
    Full Member

    aP i confess that i haven’t ridden a cx bike/road bike,but from what i have read/looked at the pictures,a cx bike seems like it would be able to handle things like potholes (when you see the cx racers,some of the terrain they are riding does look pretty rocky.)also i remember at 2003 salisbury plain challenge (as it was known then) there was a guy riding a cx bike and believe me he didn’t hang about (it was certainly rocky rutted muddy as i can remember (i did the 50 km course).

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    The shopperson’s role as gatekeeper of knowledge died about 15 years ago.
    Sure, ask the bike shop gadge which cx bike he recommends just to shoot the breeze / show a bit of courtesy because you’re in his shop and all. Asking him because you really want to know his opinion to decide on a purchase? Makes no sense these days.

    warton
    Free Member

    road bikes handle potholes just fine (they seem to do OK at paris roubaix too), although the best thing to do on both is look where you’re going and avoid them 😀

    tk46hal
    Free Member

    The shop in Newcastle sounds like a national/chain because if I went into any of my local bike shops, the people who work there are passionate about cycling and would give great advise or they would be the owners of the business and you would also get equal advise and even possible discount! 😉

    peterfile
    Free Member

    The shopperson’s role as gatekeeper of knowledge died about 15 years ago.
    Sure, ask the bike shop gadge which cx bike he recommends just to shoot the breeze / show a bit of courtesy because you’re in his shop and all. Asking him because you really want to know his opinion to decide on a purchase? Makes no sense these days.

    Not quite true. I’m speaking here from experience in ski rather than MTB, but I suspect it’s pretty much the same.

    Working in the industry, you get to go on test trips, spend time with the manufacturers/reps, come into contact with many varied issues etc than the average weekend warrior.

    You are properly trained, rather than just working it out from relatively limited experience.

    But, to some extent, I do agree. The actual level of training/testing these days is much less.

    Stuey01
    Free Member

    CX bikes use road wheels, so no advantage in dealing with potholes, unless you run fatter tyres. But to be honest if it’s primary function is a road commute then the first thing you’ll do is put skinny road tyres on it.

    FWIW I think the new Boardman CX looks pretty sweet. Front and rear discs, rack and mudguard mounts. If I hadn’t just bought a Genesis road bike for my commute a short while ago I’d be seriously looking at the boardman.

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    Not quite true. I’m speaking here from experience in ski rather than MTB, but I suspect it’s pretty much the same.

    Working in the industry, you get to go on test trips, spend time with the manufacturers/reps, come into contact with many varied issues etc than the average weekend warrior.

    You are properly trained, rather than just working it out from relatively limited experience.

    But, to some extent, I do agree. The actual level of training/testing these days is much less. I was thinking more in terms of the rise of the internet making information available to all, rather than a general drop in standards.
    Obviously some shop owners will know the bike game inside out and their opinion does carry real weight. But the idea of wanting a cross bike, so going to ask that 19 yo lad in Edinburgh bike coop what he thinks about it just seems like something your gran would do. It’s from a different age of consumerism.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    I was thinking more in terms of the rise of the internet making information available to all, rather than a general drop in standards.
    Obviously some shop owners will know the bike game inside out and their opinion does carry real weight. But the idea of wanting a cross bike, so going to ask that 19 yo lad in Edinburgh bike coop what he thinks about it just seems like something your gran would do. It’s from a different age of consumerism.

    Yeah, there’s definitely a difference between your owner and saturday staff, but at the same time, I think the availability of internet information is half the problem – people really think that reading stuff on the interporn gives you enough knowledge to buy the correct bike. That’s just nuts. You’ve got to ride the thing. And if you can’t ride it, you better at least speak to someone who has, and has experience of a lot of other bikes and can give effective advice (i.e. the shop assistant).

    I know the shop assistant is only one opinion, just like the author of an internet review is only one opinion, but ANYONE can write absolutely ANYTHING on the interporn and if you put it on a pretty page it’s taken as gospel. You have to at least know a little bit about what you’re talking about to sell something face to face.

    Xylene
    Free Member

    Sounds like you asked vague questions, and got vague answers.

    Ummm no. I was quite clear about the length of commute, conditions of commute and the way route the commute would take.

    I could do it on a hybrid, but the proposed long 16 mile commute – not really what I fancy.

    My main interest was in his stock of bikes, what he would recommend from the two, why he recommended it, what the differences are between x and y (surely he would have more than one choice) NOTE – I was passing on a detour home, it was spur of the moment and had intended a visit there at the weekend, but didn’t fancy being there when busy.

    What difference the kit made on them, warranty’s, his personal choice because that is what he thought is best.

    NOt ummmm, well aaaah, you know, it has a finishing kit, ummm that one is quite good, but well.. FFS string a fluffing sentence together and sell me a bloody bike. If I’m going to hand a grand over to a shop I want to know why.

    I appreciate you don’t have my size in stock and you don’t have the buying power to bring too much stock in, but at least make some sort of indication of what the process is for finding out if a frame fits me or not. I’ve shown a lot of interest in the one bike grunted at me, I’ve asked questions about the finishing options. PUT SOME EFFORT INTO IT.

    gearfreak
    Free Member

    Trouble is by the time you’ve competed in the local crit, the cx series, the xc series, done a couple of DH races, been on a few club runs, lead a few MTB XC epics, done a 24 hr race or two, maybe had a go at a few triathlons, commuted on everybike in the shop while trying the latest tricks at the skate park or down the jumps there is prescious little time for being in the shop making sure you are fully up to speed on every single new part from every single manufacturer, especially shimano, although as they only update their whole range every year that’s a piece off p!ss. (Forgot about getting down the velodrome for some fixed wheel rding, and spendning a couple of hours ‘couriering’ round london, even though that’s 200 miles away). Once you’ve done all that you have to actually fix bikes, serve customers and make some money. Cycling is a many and varied sport, and it’s going to be pretty much impossible for one person to have experienced all aspects of it in any depth.

    Chances are had you asked the trendy kid which BMX was the one for you he could have spouted enthusiastically about the full range for many hours, that’s probably why he was employed. Did you ask him if there was anyone in the shop who was best to speak to about your choice? The fact that you already knew the difference between a road bike and a cx bike indicated that you had a certain amount of knowledge and were probably as able to make a decision as the poor assistant.

    billyboy
    Free Member

    I run the all aluminium Kinesis CX frame as a hybrid. They are generaly a fairly unforgiving ride, even with the carbon rear end. Never tried the full carbon one tho.

    If you do go CX I’d flat bar it and use V brakes if you want anything approaching decent braking.

    It’s also worth pointing out that you will not be able to stay with a roadie in most road situations save for steep climbs.

    Xylene
    Free Member

    If you do go CX I’d flat bar it and use V brakes if you want anything approaching decent braking.

    A hybrid then

    martinxyz
    Free Member

    A hybrid it is then. See alex over at the till,cheers!

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    and then leave the shop after 3 coffees, asking for a “good puncture repair kit” on the way out.

    😆

    aP
    Free Member

    If you do go CX I’d flat bar it and use V brakes if you want anything approaching decent braking.
    It’s also worth pointing out that you will not be able to stay with a roadie in most road situations save for steep climbs.

    Someone else who knows very little about road and cross bikes.
    A friend of mine did sub 8 hours at la Marmotte on his kinesis cross bike. And I remember our Rog winning an E12 race on his cross bike at Hillingdon beating amongst others Tony Gibb.

    If I was you I’d make my decision on what I wanted, after all you know what you want it for. Then you can get down to the real decision- colour.

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