TBH I don’t see any conflict between being unfit to answer police questions, but still turning up in the house of lords, there’s probably a whole bunch of them wandering around the House not sure where they are or what this voting lark’s all about, or what their names are.

Northwind point taken. As an aside I think its interesting people are against the House of Lords many (most ?) of whom are appointed by our elected governments having a say on legislation but they are perfectly happy with a European Court (appointed) and Government (elected but where turnout is tiny) passing laws which override our own.

Jive, you’ve got to love a headline eh “secret” visits, he went to the Lords and failed to post it on facebook/twitter ? As I said people with dementia will often go to places they used to frequent, my ex wife’s mother would be found at the school gates 60 years after her last children where in school. Assuming he still has a driving licence he could drive himself to the Lords or up and down the motorway.

Craig Murray has a very sad comment over on his blog.

Ironically enough I thing the DPP has made the right decision in this case. All parties have agreed that the medical experts (four of them) unanimous conclusion that he has severe and worsening dementia. As such he cannot stand trial. There are no if’s or buts about this. If any judge allowed it to go to trial, the decision would be appealed and overturned.

Everyone is also agreed that he is no risk to anyone, he will not be repeating and of the alleged offences (Note that they are only alleged offences at the moment because he has not been allowed to challenge them).

We are then left with a difficult situation. We cannot try him and as such the allegations cannot be aired, since this would be slander because the allegations are not proved.

We end up with a Trial of the Facts. This is a legal device which is to allow people who have no mental capacity to be ‘tried’ and taken into care to protect themselves or others from their actions. But we won’t be putting Janner into care because he is not a danger to others. As such he will end up with a discharge, which does not carry a conviction with it.

Therefore the whole act is not about prosecuting Janner, but about the alleged victims (alleged because until a trial they cannot be challenged) being able to ‘speak out’ and have their time in a court. From the DPPs point of view it is a waste of money. Cases are only sent to court where there is a greater than 50% chance of success of conviction. Before this case starts we know that there is no chance of success of conviction.

You can argue that the DPP got the ‘public mood’ wrong in deciding not to send the case to trial, but is that not the point of the DPP, to remove that emotion and deal with the facts.

I would have much preferred that he had been sent to trail 10 years ago but successive governments of different colours have ignored it and buried it.

As I said people with dementia will often go to places they used to frequent, my ex wife’s mother would be found at the school gates 60 years after her last children where in school

Did she sign many cheques?

Perhaps she was running a company too?

In isolation, these facts would raise questions, but when there is a clear precedent of his escaping justice time and again, we have to wonder why…

Of course if he never goes to trial all of the accusations in the media can stand, and it’ll save the CPS a fortune. That’s about all the justice you’re likely to see. Nobody wants this trail more than the lawyers.

In fact you can make whatever accusations you want as he’s offically in no state to remember them.

there’s probably a whole bunch of them wandering around the House not sure where they are or what this voting lark’s all about, or what their names are.

I think they spend the day times posting on here

they are perfectly happy with a European Court (appointed) and Government (elected but where turnout is tiny) passing laws which override our own.

The European Court of Human Rights doesn’t pass laws (at all). The European Parliament doesn’t pass laws that override UK law; the UK parliament has voted to incorporate those laws into UK law automatically.

I see Jambalaya has abandoned his partisan point.

Goodness me… Lord Janner’s faculties seemed quite well as recently as October 2014, when he commented in his capacity as chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust on an award given to Sir Nicholas Winton:

Holocaust Educational Trust Chairman Lord Greville Janner told the Jewish News: I am delighted that Nicholas Winton has been recognised as he deserves to be. Unlike Romania and Denmark, the Czech did not protect the Jewish community against Nazi murder and it is excellent that they are now recognising one of the bravest friends of the Jewish community.

He added: We all wish him a return to good health, to 120.

How odd…

JHJ,

Is justice served by prosecuting a man who doesn’t understand what is happening?

Does a man who doesn’t know whats happening make comments like those he made in October 2014?

Given how rapidly dementia sufferers can deteriorate, yep I can believe it. Given that Fluff pieces in newspapers are often attributed to people, but not “actually” spoken by them, yes I can.

Deterioration? He must’ve had some kind of recovery, as the footage showing him being escorted (apparently in a demented state) was taken in July 2014…

Given that Fluff pieces in newspapers are often attributed to people, but not “actually” spoken by them, yes I can.

If that is the case, how can we trust any damn thing?…

Might well have been written by a HET Press Officer and nodded through as a statment in his name. He was incumbent chairman, dementia or not.

Who knows? There is a distinctly fishy smell about the whole affair. Doesn’t mean that everything is dodgy (in the respect of his medical condition) though.

If that is the case, how can we trust any damn thing?…

Oh c’mon, by using your judgement and experience?

Imagined conversation:

JN journalist: Can we have a comment about Winton form Lord Jenner?
Jenner’s wife/pres-sec/assitant: Well, he’s not in any fit state really, but I can read you a prepared statement that we use for this sort of thing?
JN Journalist: Yep, thanks…

Is pretty much how these things go IME.

But that doesn’t matter if you’re determined to believe that Jenner is acting his dementia to avoid prosecution. If you think that’s the case, posting up stories to back up your belief is a bit redundant, innit?

Does anyone else remember the Guinness bloke?

The losers in this are the (alleged) victims, denied their day in Court. And in the future, in that strange society of child-abusers, will others see Janner as having gotten away with it. Will the friends who may have allegedly helped cover up his alleged actions survive unquestioned?

It’s not Justice.

Does a man who doesn’t know whats happening make comments like those he made in October 2014?

My Dad was lucid, chatty and active in October 2014. Now he can’t remember who his family is, is irrational, aggressive (through frustration) and totally mentally lost. So, yes, it is possible.

nickc’s comment on how the press work is pretty much my experience. In fact press releases are created with quotes from people that are deemed to be appropriate leader type statements in the circumstances. They may or may not have said them but probably approved the draft written by others.

If you think that’s the case, posting up stories to back up your belief

isnt that just evidence based debate?

Kimbers, I think it’s been established that JHJ position is that Jenner is faking it.

TBH the DPP missed their chances to prosecute the fell in 97 and 03? and that should be investigated.

The losers in this are the (alleged) victims, denied their day in Court.

Absolutely, the failure of this is that the DDP misjudged the public reaction. her analysis was mostly spot on, and her advice that the victims should be allowed to speak at the inquest is probably the best they’ll get now. The Trail of facts is a waste of time, as the only outcome will be dismissal and discharge.

My Dad was lucid, chatty and active in October 2014. Now he can’t remember who his family is, is irrational, aggressive (through frustration) and totally mentally lost. So, yes, it is possible.

Sorry to hear that, the problem arises that if Janner did indeed make the statement in October 2014 (perhaps further investigation into meetings of the Holocaust Educational Trust will shed light on how involved Janner has been in his role as chairman), then the footage from July 2014 raises some very significant questions.

Then again, personally, I would’ve thought this was a bit of a giveaway…

The Trail of facts is a waste of time

Or it could of course provide some insight into the wider network surrounding Janner, not to mention giving survivors of abuse the chance to air their grievances which have been suppressed time and again…