I doubt PP is a nutter.

WCA is though. I’ve survived a few car journeys with him, but there’s no way I’d get on the back of a motorbike with him. He’s not well. 😯

rusty trowel – Member
i always found them impossible to ride anything other than flat out so its probably for the best that i dont get one

Get a slow bike then 🙂

My BSA is fun to thrash and slow enough that you won’t go to jail.

You should do it Molgrips. I doubt PP is a nutter.

He’s right you know.

No responsible biker would scare a pillion, it’s just not the done thing.

Suitable protective gear is a must though, as I’m sure TJ would agree 😀

The amazing Rollie Free.

Now I’ve never ridden a motorbike, but I imagine you can’t hear surrounding traffic as well as you can on a bike?

That were mirrors come in handy ;).
BBBBB if you couldn’t hear the bike it’s because they were not making enough noise ;). Bigger is better when it comes to noise output. That is something several of us have observed. You just have to be careful and considerate when it’s late at night.

To be fair I never like to ride bike in town. I actually rather ride the push bike. I do ride angela (ok I use to more exactly :'( )in town but that was about 10% of the time at most. It’s too dangerous. too many idiots too many hazards plus lets face it it’s just no fun (and you still have to stop at traffic lights).
On open rode… Now that’s good 😀 I can’t wait until she’s fixed (I’ll have to open the top end though).

I though WCA driving was ok.

Yeah but you’re French, and they are famous for their driving.. 🙂

Yeah but you’re French, and they are famous for their driving..

But at least in France they both watch for m/c and do move out of the way, unlike in the UK…

There is a marked difference between generally riding in the UK and commuting into London and around the SE. I’ve always found commuting far safer than riding with friends on a w/e.

If he’d clipped me, due to his trajectory he’d have sprawled across the middle lane sliding towards the inside lane. We’d all have had to slam on the anchors probably causing a pile-up since everyone was too close. I’d also have been amazed if he’d avoided going underneath my wheels or someone else’s, and I dont’ want to be the one having to pick bits of body from my wheel arches, thanks.

Well, let’s start wiith IF, shall we? did he? It doesn’t look like it. So all you’re really saying is that you were overtaken by a motorcyclist and it was a bit scary. This is bearing in mind your inability to manoevre into a 400 yd rolling gap.
Which is really, REALLY interesting. In your world. Probably

Well, let’s start wiith IF, shall we? did he?

That post was about what would have happened IF he’d hit me. You seemed to be asserting that it was ok to clip cars. I was saying that given the situation we were in, the consequences of contact would have been bad.

So all you’re really saying is that you were overtaken by a motorcyclist and it was a bit scary

What I am saying is that a motorcyclist cut it extremely fine and BANKED HIS SAFETY on the fact that none of the other cars were going to move. Have you hoenstly never seen a car make a snap last second lane change in traffic without looking? Really?

This is bearing in mind your inability to manoevre into a 400 yd rolling gap.

What? Just f*ck off will you and stop rambling like a tw*t.

You’ve got no idea who the motorcylist was, you have no idea if what he was doing was safe or not. There are unsafe motorcylists just as there are unsafe drivers and cyclists. Of course there are. But you are completely 100% sure that he was perfectly in the right, and I’m some sort of gibbering feeble moron, just because I happened to be in a car.

You’ve judged me unfavourably and him favourably, just because he enjoys something that you also enjoy. Very poor reasoning.

There are bad motorcyclists, are there not? They drive around on roads, as do I. Therefore I will meet one at some point. This happened the other day. And now somehow I am stupid because I pointed it out?

Grr 🙁

Molgrips You ability to understand motorcycling is clearly coloured by your experience crashing into one years ago that you described.

You continually assert about all the dangerous riders you see all the time. I suspect most of them are perfectly safe but appear to you dangerous because of your fear from the incident you describe and your lack of awareness and understanding of the dynamic capabilities of bikes

No one else sees so many suicidal bikers. do you see them all or are your perceptions skewed?

Only bikes that appeal to me are off road ones.

The rest would kill me rapidly. I appreciate what they can do and love the look of some of them but have never had any desire to own one.

Here we go again. OP – you’ve never wanted a motorbike, so what? I’ve never wanted to get bummed off a tramp, but I fail to see why I need to inform everybody on here about it. 😉

Ans to OP; You can’t miss what you haven’t experienced.

Personally, I think bikes are fantastic, but if you are one of these people who don’t feel 100% confident on the road, don’t touch ’em with a bargepole.

Likewise, if yoiu are a bit hotheaded DEFINITELY don’t touch ’em!!

No responsible biker would scare a pillion, it’s just not the done thing.

Very true.
And no, I’m not a nutter. And I stay away from sportsbikes too. Not my thang!

Couple of comments I’ve had from pillions:
“It’s like riding a horse but faster” (My sister) “I was ready for the leaning, but how far over and for how long was surprising” (My brother) “You’re a lot smoother than him. I kept bashing my lid on his when he changed gear” (Mrs PP after getting a lift on a mates bike) and “Oi, stop it!” after grinding the footpegs on a roundabout, also Mrs PP. (Bike was a lot lower with 2 of us on it, honest!)
I actually took Mrs PP round the TT course on Mad Sunday last time we went, after her bike broke down. That was fun. You need about 27 eyes to keep an eye on everybody!

🙂

[dreaming]
Ohhhh. The TT. The Mountain Course. Mmmmm. Niiiice.
[/dreaming]

A motorbike has never crashed into me….?

My perception of motorbikers is similar to yours I think TJ. That there are some idiot bikers who are dangerous, and some safe ones. I see idiot bikers and safe ones. You aren’t at any of the incidents I describe, so you don’t know which biker was an idiot and which wasn’t.

I see dozens and dozens of bikers each week, I’ve only commented on one or two the whole time I’v been making this journey. What’s the problem?

What I tried to discuss here (before BBSB started winding me up) was the relative safety of motorcycling vs cycling.

I’m sure motorcycling is great fun and I’ve considered it many times, but two things make me nervous:

1) the temptation for me to push myself, although the older I get the less likely this is and
2) the lack of protection if someone were to hit me.

I don’t know if 2) is worse than when cycling or not, which is what I was attempting to talk about.

Sorry – that was MF.

Motorcycling you have fewer crashes but they occur at higher speeds – and you tend to be far better protected.

Safer – pays your money and takes your choice. Both are relatively safe pursuits

Hmm.. I’ve heard about loads of horrific motorbike accidents. From people working in the emergency services and loads of stories in the press etc.

It’s easy to assume that each one was the result of some hot-head lunatic, but is that true?

Still unsure.

1) the temptation for me to push myself, although the older I get the less likely this is and
2) the lack of protection if someone were to hit me.

1) I know what you’re saying, I understand. Push a car and it slides a bit, push a bike and you’ll fall off.
But it doesn’t have to be like that. There’s plenty of old duffers ( 😉 TJ ) on BMWs and the like been riding for decades just fine, bacause they have nothing to prove, have probably had some advanced training, and are as quick as you like in complte safety

2) Again, I understand. But that’s where the skill is. That’s what you learn, and why it’s now so bloody hard to get a bike license these days! (There’d be riots if the car test was to the same standard as the bike test, with all the restrictions etc) It’s quite possible to ride a huge amount, all your life, and never have an incident like that. It doesn’t matter who’s pulling out on who, who’s FAULT it is, if you can spot it, and avoid it.
There simply isn’t a massive hoard of cars trying to knock you off! 🙂

“It’s easy to assume that each one was the result of some hot-head lunatic, but is that true?”
Not necessarily – I’ve had a couple of minor accidents that were my fault, mainly due to pushing too hard in the wrong conditions (heavy rain, ice, etc), but the one that put me in hospital and then off work for a year was a relatively low speed incident caused by a myopic car driver pulling out in front of me. I personally love riding motorbikes, but it doesnt float everybodies boat, and realistically, why should it?

but the one that put me in hospital and then off work for a year was a relatively low speed incident caused by a myopic car driver pulling out in front of me

Yeah that’s the thing. On a bike if someone pulls out in front you’re crashing at 15mph ish. In a car, it’s airbags ahoy and some whiplash. On a motorbike at 30-60mph, it’s hospital food for a fair old while, isn’t it?

Hmm.. I’ve heard about loads of horrific motorbike accidents. From people working in the emergency services and loads of stories in the press etc

So have I. I say “Ohh nasty” and carry on as I was. I know of a bloke lost his leg. He can’t really manage a bike anymore, so he rides a trike.

If you stopped doing everything that was supposed to be bad for you, you’d sit in a room and die of starvation……

On a motorbike at 30-60mph, it’s hospital food for a fair old while, isn’t it?

Nahh. I’ve come off at 30-40mph a couple of times, picked the bike up and ridden off. I ended up in hospital once becasue I hit my head on the floor and was out cold. I still can’t remember what happened to this day, so don’t ask, but I was fine 24hrs later, and the bike was fine, just a couple of scratches!

It’s only got 2 wheels. I expect to fall off at some point. In that respect it really is identical to cycling: You make a mistake and come off.

If you stopped doing everything that was supposed to be bad for you, you’d sit in a room and die of starvation……

Yeah of course. But it’s about acceptable risk, as we’ve discussed. Motorcycling may be a step too far for me.

Nahh. I’ve come off at 30-40mph a couple of times, picked the bike up and ridden off

Yeah but it’s when you fly through the air and hit trees, walls, vans etc isn’t it?

I wonder if motorcycling is much safer in the USA where there are very wide empty country roads?

Yeah of course. But it’s about acceptable risk, as we’ve discussed. Motorcycling may be a step too far for me.

Oh yeah, to be sure. Totally agree again. If you’re crapping yourself all the time over the risk, there’s no enjoyment.

But the risks, although unquestionably higher than in a car, are overstated a fair bit.

Yeah but it’s when you fly through the air and hit trees, walls, vans etc isn’t it?

Indeed it is. But you really do have to be going some to ‘fly through the air’. Really being an absolute t**t. At 30mph you slide about 5-10 yards.

I actually just missed a bike accident outside our allotment last week (I heard it though, and did some first aid…)
By all accounts the bloke was being an utter tool, he overtook a van on a mini roundabout on our estate and went head on with a VW Polo coming out the other side. I’d imagine the closing speed was 50-60mph, maybe more. You could clearly see where the impact point was, as the bike had scored the road surface as the car pushed it along. I reckon he’d gone 15-20 yards down the road from there, maybe a tad more, but he might have crawled some of that. Looked like he’d fekked his knee, but the rest of him seemed OK, if a bit bruised.
But he was his own worst enemy: Mid/late 20s, 160bhp+ of R1, riding like clown. Not an accident I would have had in a million years!

By all accounts the bloke was being an utter tool

Impossible! He was being perfectly safe, you are just paranoid!

😉

Feel sorry for the poor sod in the car tho 🙁

It was suggested that the car driver was a mate of his……

Impossible! He was being perfectly safe, you are just paranoid!

Hell no. 😉 🙂

Overtaking coming out of roundabouts is one of my all time favourite things. But you gotta be sure of yourself, and line it all up/check the traffic on the way in, way before you commit. I do it a LOT. Even on the Vespa!

But there’s limits. This is a mini roundabout, about 150 yards from my house, with a small kerbed circle in the middle. It’s surrounded by houses and a few trees on 3 sides and Farnborough Town Football ground on the 4th. There’s parked cars on the way in, so the van he overtook would have been over the white line blocking his view (And it’s VAN!! a mobile brick wall as far as observation goes FFS!) And to cap it all the road he exited onto curves left (i.e. Out of view behind the van)
There’s not a snowballs chance in hell he could see what he was doing. I wouldn’t have even thinking about possibly having a look just in case there was a remote chance of a possible overtake!

Molgrips, have you ever driven from Farnborough to Swinley Forset, up the A321 from the big Tesco/M&S on the roundabout? There’s a lot of roundabouts on that stretch of road, most of which are ripe for overtakes…. especially the last one before you go up the hill…. 🙂

I was being sarcastic.. I agree with you entirely really, just trying to annoy BBSB like he annoyed me. And yes I also overtake out of roundabouts in a car too – it’s a good way to get a head-start on a pootler.

Don’t you mean the A3095? That’s how I’d get to Swinley from Farnborough (if I wasn’t going in the back way)…

Don’t you mean the A3095? That’s how I’d get to Swinley from Farnborough (if I wasn’t going in the back way)…

Yes, sorry, the A321 turns left into Sandhurst. My map is high up on the wall, I had to stand on a chair to see the top of it!

You’ve judged me unfavourably

– easy done when you insist on talking bollocks on a subject about which on your own admission you have no knowledge or experience of

started winding me up

in football terms that’d be EASY EASY EASY

just trying to annoy BBSB

sorry FAIL – you’ll need to try much, much harder than that. 😆

This is bearing in mind your inability to manoevre into a 400 yd rolling gap.

What? Just f*ck off will you and stop rambling like a tw*t.
remember this? – changing lanes too much for you?

Still, thanks for the sport

Did I at any point say I was not capable of performing the manoeuvre? No, I said I didn’t choose to do so.

You’re still rambling like a tw*t tho. You managed to turn a reasonable discussion about motorcycling into a flame war. Good job!

when you insist on talking bollocks

If you stop and consider the thread, it was (I even pointed this out for the hard of comprehension) an attempt to discuss the issues. I was not at any point proclaiming anything since I am not a motorcyclist.

You however seemed to leap to the defence of a motorcyclist whom you do not know, and who might be a total arsehole for all you know. Which is a bizarre thing to do.

Whereas you attack all ( well 80% you said) motorcyclists as suicidal without actually having any knowledge or understanding of riding a motorcycle

Ok that was an ill-advised comment, the figure is nowhere near that high.

Probably 4 or 5 times on each trip someone drives between two moving (50-70mph) lanes of traffic going +10mph at least, which is gambling that no-one’s going to make a quick lane change without having checked for bikers.

I do see MCists being sensible, and there of course must be many more who are doing the same speed as me so I don’t meet them.

But why didn’t you say “80% is bollocks” back then instead of holding it against me this whole time?

I got annoyed when BBSB told me I was a total idiot for describing a near miss, without knowing anything about the situation. Talk about preconceived ideas.

EDIT: yes I don’t ride a motorbike, but I’m not a complete idiot. And you are always wading into arguments of which you have no direct experience…

Of course there are silly riders but there are far more silly motorists – and it’s them that often splat careful riders through lack of observation and stupidity.

Just had a motorbike rider gesture wildly then shake his head at me as I drove the other way down a narrow country lane – I suspect he thought I was too far into the middle (it was a lefthander so to see properly, you move to the middle) but actually it meant I spotted him earlier. Riders like these do others no favours.

But when I pull as tightly to the nearside as I can to let riders past on roads, they nearly always wave. Not many drivers acknowledge courtesy like that.

TJ – I have no knowledge of experience of firing an anti aircraft missile. Doesn’t mean I am not qualified to suggest they are a wee bit dangerous.

Of course there are silly riders but there are far more silly motorists – and it’s them that often splat careful riders through lack of observation and stupidity.

Yep.

I’ve just bought another motorcycle. I pick it up when I get back to the UK. First thing I’m going to do is wheelie it all the way down the road to the motorway and then do a flat out run to see how fast it goes. Then I’ll stop at the cafe, do some awesome doghnuts, pop some more wheelies and then totally cane it down the backroads home.

ANd molgrips, you better not get in my way or I’ll wheelie right over you in a Nightrider stylee…

WooohoooOOOOOOooOooOOOOOO!

It’s not a motorcycle, it’s a chopper.

heh heh!

This one is indeed a motorcycle though.

All i ever wanted from the age of 13 , had a FS1E in 77 at 16 like most people did in those days when i was 17 got a GT 250 A and passed my test 5 days after my birthday then moved on to RD 400s etc till i lost my job and was married with kids.
But as the kids grew up i got another and as my wife loves bikes as well we have never been without one since i now have 2 Harleys i still cycle to work though and have to say i feel safer on motorbike than cycling.I have a car but never was bother about them infact i only took my test as the Army paid for it all.The car would be sold before the bikes.