It's well below zero, you're soaked, and you have still got 5 hours until....

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It's well below zero, you're soaked, and you have still got 5 hours until....

35 posts & 25 voices | Started 4 months ago by epicyclo | Latest reply from epicyclo

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epicyclo - Member

It's well below zero, you're soaked, there's a bit of windchill, and you have still got 5 hours until you can get shelter. You've got no other clothes or tent etc, and it will be dark in a few hours and the temperature is likely to drop further.*

If you knew this was going to happen to you, what would you wear?

A similar topic is running on mtbr - Cold Water and Fatbike Safety

*Yeah, I know no STWer would be so foolish, so let's concentrate on the clothing choice, and maybe the shouty people could start their own thread in the chat section.

Posted 4 months ago #
TimothyD - Member

Rab Vapourise trousers with maybe some waterproof trousers over the top for legs, and a merino base layer and pile and petex fleece with a waterproof over the top for my top half, I think. I'd take my pile and pertex because i'm attached to it.

Posted 4 months ago #
gusamc - Member

buffao pertex fleece cycling shirt (they do spin dry if you whirl them)
waterproof shorts
goretex etc knee socks

why can't you take spare clothing
can you take a cheapie orange survial bag to keep wind off if you stop

Posted 4 months ago #
bobfromkansas - Member

Reed chillcheater.

Posted 4 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Always take spare clothing wrapped up in plastic baygs to keep it dry. Thermal baselayer top/long johns, socks, gloves, fleecy top. Lightweight waterproof for insulatory properties. Space blanket in case of immobilisation. Even bin liners are very effective for keeping wind off and keeping dry.

Means to make fire. Might be difficult to find dry stuffs to burn, but a small bottle of white spirit/lighter fuel, couple of lighters might not be the worst thing to carry.

Understand environment; where is nearest help, can gets 'phone signal (make sure battery charged propply), where is nearest shelter.

Posted 4 months ago #
Edric 64 - Member

Minimum extra would be a survival bag .You know those cheap orange things they insist you carry on the three peaks cx .I know its not clothing but good to have taped to your bike

Posted 4 months ago #
TimothyD - Member

Oops, didn't read the linked thread, i'd take a spare fleece or a synthetic belay jacket too if it was zero degrees and I was off out in the snow, and a hot drink. Sometimes do that in the peak district.

Posted 4 months ago #
iDave - Member

I would dip into my bountiful reserves of MTFU

Posted 4 months ago #
jameso - Member

Wool.

And a Montane Extreme jacket or a Buffalo. Some overtrousers and roubaix tights. Also I'd hope I was sensible enough to have packed the bivi bag.

I could get out of the wind and try to dry out in all that, hopefully before hypothermia sets in. But being damp in a bivi bag in a cold place is not a nice experience, I've been so cold like that I just couldn't warm up and if it had been windier or -10 it would have been grim. At that point you'd need to be able to make a fire, or think about making a move if conditions and energy levels allow it.

Posted 4 months ago #
sweepy - Member

Merino base/mid layer, with paramo over it on top. Legs would probably be something like ron hills with superlight waterproofs should i need them. Softshell gloves, and merino socks.

And if we were carrying extra id have spare socks, gloves thermals, and a down smock in a drybag.

And a couple of buffs

Posted 4 months ago #
robsoctane - Member

this is what to do... carry a micro towel (the good ones that really mop up and absorb properly - mine's a Lifestyle). Also carry talc. Strip all wet clothes off and talc up. New base layers on - merino is good but even cheap thermal top and long john's is fine. All of this weighs next to nowt and packs down small - only carry a small talc.

then stick whatever you have (spare dries) over the top. I like to have my Mountain Equipment belay jacket, expensive though...

Handwarmers are great too - well worth it.

Hope it never happens any of you - lastly Happy new Year!

Posted 4 months ago #
epicyclo - Member

The mtbr thread is interesting but I figured I'd reframe it seeing as we have a more moderate climate. Unfortunately this means we are more likely to get sodden by sleet, so I figured a British approach to this problem would be interesting.

I think it's important to be comfortable when wet in the cold. There's not much that will keep you dry in an all day sleetfest, so being warm and damp is better.

Stripping off without shelter in sleet doesn't seem an attractive option to me.

To concentrate the query on the essentials - no spare clothes, no nearby shelter, just what you would want on your body.

The Pertex pile products seem to be the goods so far.

(BTW - these are likely conditions for the 'Puffer although there will be the safety net of a pitstop each lap)

Posted 4 months ago #
messiah - Member

I've only ever been in that position once after being caught in a thunderstorm at the top of a munro and heading into the wrong valley. Once I realised where i was i knew it was five hours plus to the car. Only option was to MTFU; from the question there is no other option. FWIW, if it's cold I carry dry gloves and hat, and a belay gillet. Keeping the core and the extremities warm is imortant as the limbs are working to keep warm.

Posted 4 months ago #
epicyclo - Member

messiah - Member

I've only ever been in that position once after being caught in a thunderstorm at the top of a munro and heading into the wrong valley. Once I realised where i was i knew it was five hours plus to the car. Only option was to MTFU...

Now that you have had that experience, what do you wear?

(I do realise sensible people carry spare clothing btw )

Posted 4 months ago #
sweepy - Member

I do agree that the pertex and pile is good stuff, ive had a montane smock for donkeys. But to be honest, I dont use it a fraction as much as I used to since I got the paramo.

Posted 4 months ago #
messiah - Member

Fleecy thermal stuff is what I wear if it's cold. I have gore-tex waterproofs as a last resort but I find I get wet inside them anyway so avoid them as much as possible. Preparation and awareness of conditions and bail outs is important. Don't rush as its very easy to make a silly navigation error.

Posted 4 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

A drysuit with thermals on underneath.

Posted 4 months ago #
honourablegeorge - Member

Slippers and Bovril

Posted 4 months ago #
sambob - Member

Top = don't own one but a buffalo mountain shirt over a merino baselayer
bottoms = Endura Stealth extreme waterproof biblongs, merino socks in Shimano MW80s Or walking boots if using flats.
plenty of buffs and some waterproof ski gloves, with some spare liners.

Posted 4 months ago #
matt_outandabout - Member

^ as many above say, preparation is key, and it does not need to be huuuuge or heavy. I carry here a mini-bivi-sleeping bag thing, spare thermals and wee fleece in a bag, hat gloves, spare socks and buff, lights, first aid kit and some food.

Posted 4 months ago #
crazy-legs - Member

Bit of a weird question though - if I knew that was going to happen then I'd ensure it didn't happen, either by being fully prepared with lights, food, tent, full change of clothes etc or (more likely!) by not going out in the first place!

The question should really ask "what clothing would you like to be wearing/carrying for a winter epic?" or "what would you do if x happened?"

Clothing wise, my Endura Stealth jacket is probably the best bit of biking gear I own. Close second would be my merino base layers and waterproof socks.

Posted 4 months ago #
johnners - Member

Merino's got a lot to commend it, but if I knew I was going to get wet through for a good while I'd steer clear of it as a base layer. I've never tried any that works really well when wet, certainly none have been as good as a smelly old synthetic like HH.

Although as others have (sort of) said, if I knew what was going to happen I'd stay in with a nice cup of tea and a packet of biscuits.

Posted 4 months ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

1) full waterproofs, trousrs and jacket and avoid getting soaked.

2) waterproof shoes and dry gloves

3) space blanket and survival sack for when things get really shitty.

4) considder that ridin bikes on snow in the middle of nowhere is a bit silly just because you can and maybe go for a walk instead.

5) MTFU, as long as you're not deteriorating its probably best to get to the car, but i'd guess its better to survive 5 hours from the car and continue in the morning than to push on regardless and end up an hour from the car and dead.

Posted 4 months ago #
Tiger6791 - Member

Mankini

HNY ~ ~

Posted 4 months ago #
epicyclo - Member

I know it's a kind of silly question because the normal thing to do would be to be fully prepared.

My experience has been that if you're out long enough "breathable waterproof" gear gets wet inside even though it's breathable - it doesn't seem to breathe that well when the surface is soaked. Changing into dry gear just means another set of wet gear in another couple of hours.

For snow I'm in Rab Vapourise with IceBreaker underneath, SealSkinz and sandals, and Tesco hairy wool gloves.

Sleet I usually go for Buffalo, SealSkinz and boots (better soles for mud). Haven't found a workable set of sleet gloves yet. Most waterproof gloves are ok for only about an hour. Once wet the wool gloves seem to work better than wet sealed gloves.

So in another redefinition of the question, working on the assumption that being wet is going to happen:

What is the best gear for being warm enough to keep going and not be in need of shelter when you're wet and going to stay that way?

(ie, there's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing)

Posted 4 months ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

What is the best gear for being warm enough to keep going and not be in need of shelter when you're wet and going to stay that way?

From past experience, once your wet your f*****d. Once got rescued whilst sailing after getting wet, only 20min from the jetty and a hot shower, but once your wet your body loses heat rapidly and its downhill from there. If you kept moving to keep up body heat whilst getting soaked you'll be tired pretty quickly and still cold and wet.

If I was 5 hours from the car I'd probably phone mountain rescue and give them my position and plans, at least then if you dont phone back in an agreed timeframe they'll know where to look. The plan wouldn't be to continue anyway, it'd be looking for shelter nearby and getting as warm and dry as possible. 5 hours in freezing rain without adequate kit isn't going to end well.

Posted 4 months ago #
Sandwich - Member

Top to toe paramo analogous outer-wear, with wool undergarments. All that I've ever required in Scottish Winter conditions down to -32C windchill.

Posted 4 months ago #
kingkongsfinger - Member

Farrah action slacks, white shirt with pencil tie and tie pin, Pierre Cardin V neck jersey, white terry toweling socks and red kicker boots.

Posted 4 months ago #
epicyclo - Member

Anyone aware of any research to justify the claims for the Buffalo and Montane approach?

Posted 4 months ago #
Clink - Member

Anyone aware of any research to justify the claims for the Buffalo and Montane approach?

No but have used it out in pouring rain all day in Snowdonia and stayed warm. Obviously if you stop you lose heat - put another pile-pertex player on over the top.

Posted 4 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

Most important comment would be that its vital to not just try and struggle on, hoping the person will get warmer and dry out.

STOP, and get dry/warm - for a start by getting their wet gear off, and putting them in any dry gear you have, including losing some of your own layers and donating them. consolidating your position, getting a fire going, warm drinks etc.

Posted 4 months ago #
woolhead - Member

Hi there
I've been using Buffalo or Montane stuff for the last 20 years and I'd say it fits your needs spot on. I use it for everything from walking to ice climbing and back country skiing/boarding and biking. You can certainly chill off when not moving but I usually find it's just the windchill on the sweat for me so a light wind/waterproof over the top and all is good again. Extremities are probably a harder one on the bike but I've used a homemade version of pile/pertex overmitts with success on the bike and skiing down to -20 fine. Beyond that a hot drink, some favourite snacks and a solid awareness of your own abilities should see you right.
Enjoy your adventures
Dan

Posted 4 months ago #
epicyclo - Member

woolhead - Member
...I've been using Buffalo or Montane stuff for the last 20 years and I'd say it fits your needs spot on...

Looks like a lot of gear is useless if you get wet for extended periods.

I'm expecting it to be lashing sleet for the 'Puffer and I have no intention of stopping, so it looks like I'll be in my Buffalo gear. I expect to be wet.

Anyone with a negative for the Buffalo pertex/pile method?

Posted 4 months ago #
DrP - Member

I'd take a smartphone and play angry birds. And maybe a pastie.

DrP

Posted 4 months ago #
epicyclo - Member

DrP - Member
I'd take a smartphone and play angry birds...

That's a better plan. What smartphone for extended soaking...

Posted 4 months ago #

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