[Closed] It’s getting dark – time for a cheep Lights thread?

Massively impressed with my magic shine mj872 can be had for about £80

Following on from abductees post on another thread I'm tempted by £23 cheap Chinese light on Ebay [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230825016348 ]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230825016348[/url]

Cant justify spending a lot as it will only get occasional use, should I get the night riding bug however I'm guessing I will need to upgrade to something better but time will tell.

What kind of budget are you thinking about?

Smudge at mtbbatteries has a very nice looking light at £89

ninja has a glow worm light that looks nice too, but i can't find his site or a price.

I've a DX light, it was £28 delivered, 900 lumens, 3 modes, 3hrs run time and has lasted 2 years (10-20 uses only though)

Its been fine but gets red hot during use, and the stories about overheating batteries etc scare me enough to not mount it on my helmet. Also this year at SITS the lamp came loose twice from the mounting bracket forcving a mid lap repair or two.

I too want something more trustworthy with a prereq of 2 x SITS laps or 3-4 hours burn time same lumens, without carrying a spare battery - and after my Hope R4 thread last night my conclusion is either:

a) A Hope R4 standard, nearly 4 hours £200
b) Asking Smudge to supply a battery which will get his X2 to 4hrs, and pay the £89 plus whatever to do so which I think will come in less than the R4.

Depends how much light you want - I notice that eighteenbikes have a couple of 300 / 500 lumen lamps on sale for instance.

Rusty, I have no idea how much use this thing will gets so was guessing up to £50 but I have an open mind.

If a £60 light is in a different league to a £30 light I would consider it. Ideally though I am looking for someone to say ‘I have this light at £30/£40/£50 purchased from x/y/z and its ace’.

uwe-r - I think generally you pay for what you get. DX lights are cheap becuase they use cheaper labour in China and they come to the UK under the HMRC radar.

They have hit and miss quality though, and there's no customer support.

I find it hard to spend £100 on what is effectively the same light I have, but I understand why.... you just have to accept it. I'd go for Smudge at mtbbatteries if I were you - better than magicshine, same prices and an excellent reputation. Unless you want to venture of over £100.

I would have happily paid £50 to avoid my DX light falling off my bar on muddy SITS lap (twice).

I ordered one of those Chinese jobbies 2 weeks ago.
It looks good, but I can't really comment as it still hasn't arrived.

Have a look at c and b seen. The 1200 lumen job is brilliant.

I'd go for Smudge at mtbbatteries if I were you - better than magicshine,

I'd like to see some evidence to support that.

My Magicshine MJ-872 is an excellent bit of kit, bought from a uk seller for £80 quid or so.

Fair point mlucas, I'm going solely on feedback of both I've seen on here.

After a crap ride last night where my £30 Cree xm-l cut out twice I've ordered a Gloworm X2 with the 20quid off voucher.
Use code GLOWORM20 at http://www.crgmoto.co.uk - Ends midnight 15th Sept

Rich tea, would that be the £150 set with £20 off? A bit out of my league.

Kryton.

Might be worth considering a Model 401. The 4 cell version should give 1000 lumens for just under 4 hrs. As opposed to the ~630 lumens from the R4.

Mail me if you want to know more.

EDIT:
Another thumbs up here for Smudge at MTBBatteries too, good service, UK based.

Love my ultrafire 1300 lumens torch plus a cheap clamp to fix it to the bars. There's a thread on here somewhere about them but I can't find it. Torch + 2 lithium batteries+ charger + clamp was less than 30 quid.

[i]I'd like to see some evidence to support that.[/i]

I can vouch for the excellent customer service and the high standard of battery cells Smudges supplies, which goes along with his excellent knowledge and experience with batteries. 🙂

Smudge has supplied my batteries and chargers for years and its always been top service and product.

Massively impressed with my magic shine mj872 can be had for about £80

+1 here

Got mine off ebay with a battery upgarde. Fitted the light unit with an £8 Hope bar QR and it is bloody brilliant. It's like the sun coming up when you switch it on and I've struggled to actually run it right down as it automatically drops down a setting as the battery runs out.

I have bought and owned a few of the chinese Cree XM-L torches/lamps.

They work fine; the only problems are;

Battery life isn't earth-shattering (cheap packs).
Battery packs aren't always interchangable, some packs and lamps have different mid-way male-female connectors.

Oh, and the Magicshines are simply more expensive versions of the same (having owned both also)

Anyone know when Smudge's new light goes on sale, and the expected price?

[url= http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/news/ ]http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/news/[/url]

+1 smudge/mtbbatteries

UK based, brilliant to deal with when I ordered the wrong replacement battery for my hope light.

I bought one of the cheap (£35) cree ones last year and think it's fantastic for the mooney. not sure how long it'll last but for a first blast to see if you like night riding you can't go wrong.

I was out with my mates at stainburn last winter and they had both bought magicshines. the only reall diffence apart from no of functions was that theirs had a sligtly bigger flood than mine. mine was a bit more direct, but theirs were £50 more than mine so i'm not too fussed.

Ordered another cheapy XML the other night under £20 now, rude not to IMO:

[url] http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300677445326?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 [/url]

The previous one (1Yr old) is still going strong but the charger has recently gone pop, might as well have a 2nd light/battery for not much more than the price of a charger.

Still got an old DX P7 Bastid which is still going ~3 years on but I did have to solder a new switch in after about 18 months...

And a DX P7 (1 x 18650) Torch which hasn't missed a beat, use it on the helmet or the bars but burn time is relatively short...

I can vouch for the excellent customer service and the high standard of battery cells Smudges supplies, which goes along with his excellent knowledge and experience with batteries.

Smudge has supplied my batteries and chargers for years and its always been top service and product.

I don't doubt what you are saying at all, i think the point I was trying to make is that there are also other excellent units available for similar cost. Personally I would take an MJ-872 over the single LED T6 unit he sells, even if that means that the quality of service is not as good.

Oh, and the Magicshines are simply more expensive versions of the same (having owned both also)

Granted, the magicshine mj-808s look almost identical to the generic DX Cree XM-L T6 stuff, but the MJ-872s certainly are not. The quality of the light output is significantly better.

I just got one of these as I already have a charger, helmet mount and batteries. It is dead bright.
[url= http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-501b-cree-xml-u2-1300-lumen-5-mode-led-flashlight-1-18650/ ]http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-501b-cree-xml-u2-1300-lumen-5-mode-led-flashlight-1-18650/[/url]

I also got one of these and it is a bit bigger than I thought (Like two cut down torches) and the clap is a bit Victorian
[url= http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-uf-22b-2-cree-xm-l-t6-1500-lumen-3-mode-led-bicyclelight-headlight-with-4-18650-battery-pack-and-charger ]http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-uf-22b-2-cree-xm-l-t6-1500-lumen-3-mode-led-bicyclelight-headlight-with-4-18650-battery-pack-and-charger[/url]

I was expecting something smaller to go on my lid but as a bar light it is fine. The torch is nice and small for my lid.

Already got a troutie for the bars.

I get the impression that the cheap ass Cree / DX stuff widely available is as you would expected very capable but of questionable quality / durability. For my limited use it would appear well worth a punt.

The pricing just seems to be all over the place so I will see what I can find.

Granted, the magicshine mj-808s look almost identical to the generic DX Cree XM-L T6 stuff, but the MJ-872s certainly are not. The quality of the light output is significantly better.

And four times as expensive. But yes, I was thinking of the 808's.

uwe-r - Member
I get the impression that the cheap ass Cree / DX stuff widely available is as you would expected very capable but of questionable quality / durability. For my limited use it would appear well worth a punt.

This is exactly where my head was at 2 years ago. I spent £28 and have got thorough several events and night rides with no issues until recently (which actually some threadlock may cure).

My situation now is no2 child on the way this month which means snatching a ride here and there this winter. I don't want to be stuck in the dark woods pre/post work ride without a light so am just looking for reliablity. PLus I now know I can enjoying dawn/night riding and it hasn't cost be a fortune to discover that.

FWIW I can also road ride on the medium setting too.

I'm sure someone will be along to pitch in the standard [I]"Buy Cheap Buy twice"[/I] line and they would be right of course; the Cheapy far eastern XML and P7 lights don't last forever and you'd be well advised to make the odd modification straight away to prevent the British weather killing them in minutes rather than months, but considering their actual price the logic is more like more like [I]"Buy cheap, buy four or five before you're even close to the price of a Hope, Exposure, etc..."[/I]

And there is something to be said for being able to get out and riding in the dark for ~£25 Vs ~£150-200, If you're concerned and want to be certain you won't be let down by them say in the middle of a 24Hr race then I'd say buy 2 or 3, a bit of redundancy can't hurt...

You pays your money you makes your choice...

Those mtbbatteries lights look freekin awesome maaaaan

Had a quick google over lunch and if i was looking at light in the sub £50 price bracket this looks like a nice option

http://www.colorapples.com/cree-xpg-r5-1000lm-3led-3mode-white-bike-light-with-mount-bracket-and-battery-pack-4-x-18650-p-137223.html

I can not vouch for reliability or build quality but from the pictures it looks a nice neat little light. Based on XP-G Led's which generally have a good spread of light (the newer XML's although brighter can have a nasty hotspot if a cheap reflector is used) and seem to be being run a reasonable current to produce the stated output.
I'd say the £30 would be worth a punt.

If I had bought my 872s when I first started night riding I would have saved a fortune. Buy a good one now as you are only wasting money upgrading later on.
My collection of £30 lights are nowhere near as good as my 872.

What do you do with the 2 pin ting tong charger ??

worldwide to UK adapter??

Just buy a shaver 3 pin adapter plug - they take a 2 pin like on the Chinese chargers.

Is it any bloody wonder UK industry is going down the tubes when the very people with the disposable income to actually support it choose to hand their cash over to Chinese importers who almost certainly dodge taxes and probably stole the IP to the LEDs in the first place?

Buy Hope, get a good light, excellent support, and relax knowing that it's not been assembled by a 12 year old working for pennies a day in toxic conditions.

Buy Hope, get a good light, excellent support, and relax knowing that it's not been assembled by a 12 year old working for pennies a day in toxic conditions.

Smudge is 12 and Lichfield is toxic? 😉

so when are those mtbbatteries lights out?

Flaperon - Member
Is it any bloody wonder UK industry is going down the tubes when the very people with the [b]disposable income[/b]...

Assumptive...

Oh, come on - if you have money to spend on bikes and lights and you consider them the same importance as food and a roof over your head you're sadly misguided.

And I don't mean smudge or MTB batteries.

Alex222

Just found this
[url= http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/mountain-bike-lights/v2000-lumenator/ ]MTBbatteries lumenator[/url]

[url= http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/mountain-bike-lights/v2000-lumenator/ ]I did actually follow that link didn't see it first time I looked. Not a bad price I reckon[/url] 😀

[edit]turns out the original link wasn't that link... eggy face[/edit]

MartynS - Member

Massively impressed with my magic shine mj872 can be had for about £80

Aye... I had cheaper Magicshines before and at first thought, "3 times as expensive but I bet it's not 3 times better". Well, it is, easily. There's other similiar units out there that do the same job obviously but something along these lines is where my money'd go.

The original Smudge light just wasn't worth the money, which was a shame as he's a top boy. But this new one looks more like it

Jim Bob and Alex. Thanks for that link. I think the page must have been updated today. Either that or I missed it too. Sounds like a very good deal, especially as it comes with it's own UPS 🙂

Flapperon - those hope lights cost about as much as my bike is worth!

Just been out to test the new setup. The Chinese double lights above are very bright but the bar mount is far too small. It is also a spot which I found is not to good on the bars. My Troutie liberator does not have the power/throw of the other light but the light is a lot more useful on the bars as it has a much more spread throw of light so if you move your bars you don't notice like on lights with a spot. The Chinese double light is going on the commuter. The cheap torch is really powerful and a really good complement to the Troutie as a helmet light. Might slow me down though as I will be able to see what the monsters are lurking in the bushes instead of legging it.

Would be interested to know if there are any lights that have the same kind of wide beam as the liberator as it is a really nice spread.

I would have thought smudges lights were also made in China but I may be wrong.

alex222 - Member
I did actually follow that link didn't see it first time I looked. Not a bad price I reckon

Hold on a sec - 10 hours at 70% - thats 1400 lumens all night? Where do I pay?

I've been using a cheap DX Cree light for about 3 years now, it's been great. I bought a spare, just in case last winter too.

I like the fact that it's bright enough without being a portable sun, keeps you on your toes!

So i have an order in for this bad boy:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1800Lm-CREE-XM-L-T6-LED-Bicycle-Light-lamp-HeadLight-head-/180946755262?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_Bike_Lights&hash=item2a21445ebe

(its a 1800Lm CREE XM-L T6 for £23.50)

Will post up my thoughts once i have tried it out.

(its a 1800Lm CREE XM-L T6 for £23.50)

How on earth have they come up with a figure of 1800 lumens? Even in ideal conditions you'd be lucky to get half that from a T6 in a light.

[i]How on earth have they come up with a figure of 1800 lumens? Even in ideal conditions you'd be lucky to get half that from a T6 in a light. [/i]

Welcome to the world of Chinese lights. Talk in the media about the TSI now starting to police the web hasn't and probably can't do anything about the wild output claims posted on the web by some people.

In my experience, most lights I've seen recently do not have sufficient cooling.

Kind of makes me wonder why people like me and Trout have gone to the extra expense and trouble of getting our lights independantly measured in a lab, to ascertain the real outputs, when the folk in China appear to just think-up a number.

It can be good to see some folk thinking about the UK economy and trying to buy British, etc. But if you're riding a £200 bike, then its not difficuult to see why someone is only going to spend ~£30 to £90 on a light. Or, if its their first night riding season and they just want to see if its something they can really get into. Which if they do, they can sell on their first light and maybe obtain something towards the higher end of the market.

Pretty much agree with what neninja and Luminous have said, your light will not have 1800 Lm probably closer to 1000, however this will still be more than enough to give you a good idea whether you like night riding or not.

Be aware the light will get very hot if left on full with no airflow past it so it would be highly advisable to dim the light while stationary.

Have fun on the trails.

Luminous. Your point is very valid, I am generally adverse to buying cheap tat from overseas – I have never bought anything like this before on Ebay or anywhere else and don’t intend to make a habit of it. Having looked at the various adds on Ebay I would assume a fairly low level of accuracy on their claims and low level of quality on the goods – they all appear to be selling the same stuff with the same pictures but the claims and pricing are all over the place. My choice was as much down to the simple bar mount as it was the figures.

However as said, my annual expenditure on bike related stuff is low my bike is now probably worth £500 and this light will probably get no more than 10 outings over the winter as a guess. I can not justify spending more.

Another vote for Magicshine MJ872. That said I have not tried others and like the look of what Mtbbatteries are doing (I am guessing importing and maybe having a hand in design and or quality control).

The MJ872 provides a great wide spread of light and pretty decent throw distance. if you were hacking downhill at 30mph you may want more throw distance. If that's your plan IMHO you would do well to buy an additional helmet light that has more of a spot beam as there are very few lights that can manage both well. Even fewer that do both on a reasonable budget.

At an almost wife friendly price (£89 off ebay) I think the compromise between lumens, beam throw/spread, quality and £ is hard to beat. One caveat is that I am adding some silicon grease to the seals as I saw a tear down that recommended this to increase water proofing. I also purchased a hope bracket (requires slightly longer screw to fix to light) that makes this more secure and tidy on the bars.

Being new to this playing in the dark thing whats the best set up then bar light, helmet light or combo of both ?
Guessing its a good idea to have an emergency get you home back up as well ?
Maybe bar light with cheap Chinese torch on helmet as back up ?

@Muke - Back in the days of halogens, I used to run nothing but bar lights for off-road riding. I still use my halogens for the time being - rather turbocharged - but now run helmet-only off-road as it means I've pretty much always got light where I'm looking.

The slight downside is that you get less / virtually nothing in the way of shadows as depth cues as the light is closer to your eyes. Also, as the light is above your eyes the shadows fall differently from those you might be used to with bar lights or car lights.

You can of course run bar lights as well as a helmet light, but if only running one, my personal preference is for a helmet light. Also remember that a helmet light is dangerous (illegal?) to use on the road so you'll need a small bar light for any road sections anyway.

Regarding those mtbbatteries lights they say 2000 lumen. However other lights have the generated lumens and the measured lumens. What is the distinction and is the 2000 lumens sighted the generated or the measured lumen?

As a general point I have noticed that info on the Hope R4 has this strange double figure for [i]generated[/i] and [i]measured[/i].

Personally, I'd have thought that the only value which matters to the user is how many lumens are coming out the front of the thing. Which is why I send my lights to our very own STW tester, Chris W, who measures both the lumens, using an integrating Sphere, and lux, using calibrated lux meters in a purpose designed testing rig.

At a guess, the figure for generated might be some kind of theoretical maximum ?.

so the 2000 lumens cited by mtbbatteries is likely to be the measured lumen value?

bugcab - Member

The MJ872 provides a great wide spread of light and pretty decent throw distance. if you were hacking downhill at 30mph you may want more throw distance. If that's your plan IMHO you would do well to buy an additional helmet light that has more of a spot beam as there are very few lights that can manage both well. Even fewer that do both on a reasonable budget.

You need a very powerful spot to out-throw the 872 by a meaningful amount... I tried it for a little while but without any real success (my XML light had a stupendous amount of narrow throw, but that wasn't actually much use at all, the bright spot impacts on your night vision and you still end up playing chase-the-dot, whereas the wider beams allow you to just ride fairly normally).

The best option was still just the modern, powerful flood on the head... Still has more range than a spotlight had just a couple of years ago.

But, I reckon maybe this year's lights will have some more competitive helmet options that'll change that. The triple XMLs that Torchy is doing look like they might be the right balance, assuming they don't melt and dribble onto the top of your head. Most of the twin XMLs seem pretty bulky but I've not seen 'em all.

so the 2000 lumens cited by mtbbatteries is likely to be the measured lumen value

NO its the on paper if driven at the maximum amps Cree stipulate .

more likely to be about 1600 ish Lupins

[IMG] [/IMG]

The Gloworm X2 we are doing is a much more usable beam than the reflector based single XML's. Most of those have a small spot of light that throws for miles surrounded by a dim halo of light around it.

The Gloworm's X2 standard spot/flood optics give a beam with a much larger hotspot that throws very well but without a dim halo around it.

Gloworm's quoted 1200 lumens on high in trail mode is a genuine lumen output figure. Given it's small size and weight (80g inc mount) a balance has to be struck between lumen output from the Cree XM-L U2 emitters and heat management.

It does get every confusing with some companies quoting theoretical max outputs from the emitters, others quoting measured lumens and some Chinese lights quoting total nonsense.

With the Gloworm, we've taken the decision to quote 'real' lumen outputs like Troutie and Luminous do for their lights. It might make the lights appear on paper to have a lower output than some lights quoted lumens but hopefully people will see past that when they read the feedback from customers on places like STW.

Numpty question – can you measure lumens or get close to a measurement with a light meter?

Neninja, out of curiosity on the X2, is the only control on the remote? Or is there a switch on the light?

Also, is there any prospect of a stripped-down package? All I'd really want is the light, the charger and the battery...

The remote is the only control for the light.

There is no switch in the light body. It means on the bars you can have switch at your finger tips and on the side of a helmet rather than trying to push a button on the back which might move the light.

When you say a stripped down package what parts wouldn't you want?

Cheers for that, I didn't like the idea of the remote til now but actually the way you describe it, it makes sense.

TBH all I'd want is the light and the battery, and [i]maybe[/i] the charger though I think my existing one would be fine.

Thanks DoctorRad

My first light is on its way via a slow boat from China so I will see how it goes when it gets here.

Thanks for the information guys, I have been looking at one of these as a commuter light, My commute will be the back roads of Cornwall....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261101057225?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

But from having a read I may go for the mtbbatteries ones.

http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/mountain-bike-lights/

see what happens.

Cheers Steve

Quick review. First proper night ride last night using my new light.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1800Lm-CREE-XM-L-T6-LED-Bicycle-Light-lamp-HeadLight-head-/180946755262?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_Bike_Lights&hash=item2a21445ebe

The light unit seems well made although the battery and lead are clearly thrown together.

+, Easily powerful enough light for pitch black trails, I left my old front LED commuter light on and it was made completely redundant by the power of the new one, I remember thinking the old one was pretty bright. Light worked great for the full ride and did not run hot, it was on for just over an hour on full power.

-, The spot is very narrow which has been identified by other posters and the mounting options are limited, I wouldn’t trust it anywhere but on the frame/bars. Due to the shape of my bars it was just of straight, nothing severe but slightly annoying and would need some careful bodging to get the minor tweak to straighten it up. I have no idea how long it would have gone on for / and how much charge is left, I will need to run it down on the commute before charging it up ready for another off road ride. I also have no idea how long to charge the battery for other than just keeping an eye on the light while it charges (in a tin due to fire risk). There were no instructions in the box.

For £24 it is a different league of night riding to anything I have done and I quite enjoyed the experience, certainly scary enough. I recommend the strobe setting for maximum messing with your mind.

Further praise for Smudge: my V1 light was subjected to 7 hours of continuous rain on Friday night, and worked flawlessly.

About a year ago I was in a similar position to lots of folk here- needed to be out at night more due to necessity rather than choice- family, work etc..
Didn't have much money, couldn't afford the top end lights so was naturally tempted by some of the cheap dx type offerings and such. My budget was about £50 but after reading a few really informative threads on here I went for smudges original light. I couldn't stretch to an mj808 or whatever they were at the the time but was wary of the cheaper dx units after someone pulled one apart and showed all its frailties- lack of thermal paste, poor wiring etc..
Smudge was able to show how he'd greatly improved the durability and quality of his version before putting it on sale and this was what swung it for me compared to other cheap dx/other units.
And I'm glad I did. Been out in all weathers, on and off road, and it's been great- a bit spotty but I knew that when I bought it. I haven't had any probs but anyone on here who has has always posted about how quickly smudge sorted it out. Coupled with the fact that he really is a sound bloke and that I'm buying something from a small UK business it's all good as far as I'm concerned.
If I have enough cash I'll prob be buying his new light at Christmas- although the glowOrm doesn't look bad either, just a few quid more.

Magicshine MJ-872 (I think it is...). Awesome light - plenty of power. What it lacks in lens compared to the expensive ones it makes up for with sheer lumens. Clocked 36 MPH on Sat night coming down some rough landy track at a local trail on Sat night - only slightly sketchy, but due to lack of skill rather than the light. Ditch the silly o-ring bracket though. I bolted mine on to a hope bracket bought from CRC for about £6. Had to buy some spares for it last week (after a year of ownership and moving house through the summer I lost my charger), supplier was very good and had what I needed in stock. All in all, very impressive for £80.....Oli.