If you go on a foreighn holiday, an Islamic country, you see women wearing the traditional dress burka do you think it’s fair to come back and criticise the womens attire becauSe you don’t understand it or because it’s different to what you know?

More importantly do you think it’s inconsiderate to criticise these people in front of you Muslim friend? If your musli
friend has already explained the INS and outs of why women wear this do you think it’s fair that that person then joins in with the conversations and comments others are having about the burka?

Or do you feel in a country where freedom of speech is influenced we should speak our minds?

Thoughts. Welcome people who are British who have a foreighn girlfriend or boyfriend

Different standards based on your genital grouping is offensive. Making allowances for ‘different cultures’ implies you believe they’re too backward to understand. Which would be racist. HTH.

I think it would be fair to allow any type of dress in this country on the assumption that the same liberty would be afforded us in the corresponding country.

The same goes for culture, religion, law and general behaviour.

Hm.

Freedom to ‘speak our mind’ doesn’t have to be mean that we have to be completely tactless, n’est-ce pas? You see someone who’s overweight, is it alright to blurt out “bloody hell love, stay off the pies”?

The burka is, as I understand it, a symbol of female oppression. I can understand why some people would want to criticise it, but there’s perhaps ways of doing so without being directly offensive to individuals present.

Maybe.

Yes
No
Yes
Yes

or possibly
No
Yes
No
No

It really depends on the people in question and context of the conversations.
Being muslim isn’t anything special. People know I’m a cyclist, but it doesn’t stop them moaning about other cyclists in front of me.

if someone is being offensive to your friend (regardless of race/religion/gender etc) then either tell em to GTF or avoid them in future.
this is a free country, we are all free to mix/interact/talk to whoever we please, whether its on the ‘net, or face to face.
if the person who is doing the criticising is a ‘mate’, personally id find someone else to be friendly with TBH.
hope ive picked you up right like.

The same goes for culture, religion, law and general behaviour.

Rock on up to Saudi Arabia with a bottle of Jack Daniel’s and see how far you get. (-:

Personally, I think perhaps you’ve got that backwards. If you visit a country, you should respect its culture, or rethink your destination. If you’re going to go somewhere and set up ‘Little England’ as soon as you get there, you might as well stay at home. How many people go to, say, Spain and then immediately seek out the Rose and Crown ‘British pub’ and somewhere to get a full English breakfast?

‘speak our mind’ doesn’t have to be mean that we have to be completely tactless, n’est-ce pas?

you have not been here long have you 🙄
I dont disagree BTW it is a dig at other forumites

The burka is, as I understand it, a symbol of female oppression

then you understand it incorrectly. It is a symbol of their faith In Islam and perhaps an over interpretiaton of the meaning of dressing modestly. Only the hair has to be covered to comply iirc.
the problem is to western eyes we see this as men oppressing women, to Islamic eyes jordan and others [A & A anyone?} shows western men sexually exploiting women etc. i dont particularily like either extreme but I am pro choice as to what women wear.
there is a rich irony in white middle class men deciding that the Burkha is opressive and therfore banning it and preventing women from freely wearing it to free them from oppression
One of my mates wifes wears it when she is really annoyed with him as it means the whole community know this. When they go to other places he gets lots of dirty looks for oppressing her…clever isn’t she.

One can wear whatever one likes so long as one does not try to impose his/her moral value on others. i.e. do not demand or expect to be treated differently just because one has different religious values. For example, one can be completely naked or completely covered up as one likes so long as one does not try to tell others how morally right one is.

If one gets dirty looks then one gets dirty looks as that is the nature of things. Try to look different then be expected to be stared at … same goes with a person who walks down the street naked. Everyone will stare.

Anyone not dressed ‘modestly’ should be publicly stoned without hesitation.

As well as anyone wearing anything by Troy Lee.

I think it is weird that there are women living in the UK today who wear Burkhas when there are women in some small spots around the world who will be assaulted, raped and ostracised if they do not wear them. Go to Pakistan or Indonesia and full veils are very much the minority and have greatly declined over recent years.

Are the UK Muslim women who defend their choice to wear a Burkha showing solidarity for the oppressive cultures who deprive their sisters of an education or the right to choose their own husband?

Smacks more of Stockhausen’s than of Faith to me.

then you understand it incorrectly.

Entirely possible, ‘s why I said “as I understand it” rather than stating fact. I don’t profess to being an expert, I just think it’s an interesting discussion.

No; although I think you use the same cream as for hemorrhoids to stop it?!

😯

Interested for once I’m speechless. Personally Its easy ‘ be respectful and sensitive and don’t alienate’ enough said. Thanks.

This thread was a bit crap 2 weeks ago, why’s it back again?

Because the OP thought he could either:
1. Drag a bit more life out of it.
2. Try to get some life into it that it never had in the first place.

Different standards based on your genital grouping is offensive. Making allowances for ‘different cultures’ implies you believe they’re too backward to understand. Which would be racist. HTH.

I think trying to pass judgement on other folks culture based on the standards that shape our own culture is arrogant.. insidious.. and shows a diabolical lack of education regarding the culture that you are judging..

I’m sure that our own culture imposes regulations and lower standards upon those whose beliefs step outside of our own accepted norm.. and that other cultures find this equally as offensive and barbaric..

conspiracy if you ask me remember be scared of muslims everywhere they oppress their women folk , take our jobs, dont learn our language or culture, want to either bomb us , sharia law us or revert us.

the fact we meddle in all their countries because they have oil, support dicators there as they are pro western and give us the oil whilst we arm and befriend them and bomb those that dont should in no way mean any of that faith or gouping are a bit peeved at us as we are nice western liberals and they are the bogeymen who want to get us. We are better.
Basically we are the goodies thay re the baddies OK
HTH.
EDIT: Well said Yunki

Junkyard +1

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ff3Qg6B_WY[/video]

I think trying to pass judgement on other folks culture based on the standards that shape our own culture is arrogant.. insidious.. and shows a diabolical lack of education regarding the culture that you are judging

Nope. You either think equality is basic right, or you don’t. You obviously don’t.

So anthropology is not your thing then 🙄

The major guiding principle in anthropology is that of cultural relativism, which basically states that to understand a culture requires understanding it from inside, and not to judge it by the standards of ones own culture.
HTH but I doubt it will

I get criticised for wearing my national head gear all the time; Post Offices, corner shops, banks etc

Seriously WTF is wrong with a Balaclava!!

there is nothing wrong with you hiding your ugly mug from sight thanks 😆

Is there any need to be rude and nasty to Tanky, Junky? Is there? Hmm?

I don’t think there is, do you?

all you wrong thinking people are wrong and I am right apart from when I am wrong.

perhaps, unlike you, he can laugh at himself ? 😉
Tanky no offence was meant if any was taken i apologise it was said for humouroue effect only but you knew that didnt you elfin.

You either think equality is basic right, or you don’t.

😕

Since when has equality been a basic right ?

I thought our rights were based on being ourselves ?

BTW, I’m sure the Chief Executive of Barclay’s is glad that equality isn’t a basic right.

Equality IS a basic right

Unless you fall into the following categories

a)White
b)black
c) Asian
d) Muslim
e) Christian
f) Catholic
g) Protestant
h) Shia
i) Jew
j) anything else

You either think equality is basic right, or you don’t. You obviously don’t.

that’s making a very blinkered assumption..
FWIW I would love for equality to be a right.. and to a certain extent it is.. to believe that another cultures interpretation of equality is inferior to your own is narrow minded and shows a fundamental lack of understanding..

I think perhaps that you believe too much anti-muslim propaganda.. I’m unsure from your vehement feelings.. that you have looked any furthur than middle class student outrage and national newspapers when researching the subject.. maybe a few documentaries aired around times of high profile anti-war sentiment perhaps.. probably some chinese whispers based on right wing extremist literature too..

If you research deeper into the culture of the burkha and of the alledged oppression of Muslim women you will often find that you have just swallowed a load of old baloney.. propaganda trotted out to make the west’s oil wars more palatable..

shame on you

I think it would be fair to allow any type of dress in this country on the assumption that the same liberty would be afforded us in the corresponding country.

Not really, because wearing a burka here is far less offensive than NOT wearing one in say Afghanistan.

Because showing female hair is not a big deal to us, but it is to them.

Simples.

do you think it’s fair to come back and criticise the womens attire because you don’t understand it or because it’s different to what you know?

Fair on who? Why would I want to sit and listen to you moan about your holidays? If you don’t like it, go to Malaga, drink Watney’s Red Barrel and ogle slappers in g-strings.

They stopped making Watney’s Red Barrel in 1997.

You can imagine my disappointment when I went to Malaga last year and found out.

Does the term “Islamaphobia” imply that a fear of Islam is irrational?

If you go on a foreighn holiday, an Islamic country

Does not compute.

just had a few watches of pat condell’s videos – is he a racist or a realist?

alexxx – Member

just had a few watches of pat condell’s videos – is he a racist or a realist?

The latter.

Does the term “Islamaphobia” imply that a fear of Islam is irrational?

the term phobia mans irrational fear fo so in basically yes all phobias are an irrational fear.

If you go on a foreighn holiday, an Islamic country

Does not compute.

Egypt, Tunisia , turkey would you like more examples?

Chew he supports UKIP?