Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 113 total)
  • Is my light "too bright"?
  • Ben_H
    Full Member

    “Your flashing light is illegal and it’s blinding me”…said an oncoming lorry driver to me this morning.

    I replied that I understood his point of view and I was sorry about the dazzling, but that it was legal (from memory, the regs changed in 2005). I switched it to constant mode to make the point that this was actually brighter!

    The thing is, he’s about the fifth person to have said something similar to me this winter – the others each being, probably coincidentally, female fellow cyclists.

    I’m doing my best to appear visible and I have no intention whatsoever of causing harm or ill-will…but how do I sort this out?

    The “offending” light is an Exposure Joystick Mk7, usually set to a flashing setting and mounted on my helmet. It’s been invaluable for the unlit sections of my commute – and I think it’s hardly extreme in the world of bike lights.

    A little exploring of tinterweb revealed this interesting CTC analysis though:

    CTC – Bobby Dazzlers

    Are these people daft, or is my bike light inappropriate and inconsiderate?

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Do you really want to “blind” the driver of a vehicle heading in your general direction? Chances are you simply have the thing pointing too high. Why do you think cars have dimmable headlights?

    richmars
    Full Member

    I regularly get blinded by a cyclist on my bike commute to work. It’s on a cycle path, and the curve in the path makes it look like it’s a car coming towards me.
    So yes, your light could be too bright.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    The thing is, he’s about the fifth person to have said something similar to me this winter

    Errrr… Do you not think that they might have a point ?

    Dip the light down.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Yep, too bright and i imagine as it is on your head and flashing you will blind/distract oncoming drivers.

    Just because you can buy and fit blinding lights it does not mean that more brightness/flashing modes equals more personal safety on the road.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    I regularly get blinded by a cyclist on my bike commute to work.

    Me too!

    Often its the cyclist behind, look back to check if a cars coming and get blinded by a super dazzling light set to rapid flash and pointing straight in my eyes by someone 2ft off my back wheel…

    Off-road lights (such as the joystick) need pointing at the ground IMO.

    You could fit a diffuser maybe?
    http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Exposure-Beacon-Diffuser-Cover_62105.htm

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    Motorists are very delicate little creatures, inside their massive metal boxes, aren’t they? Waa waa waa. Poor things.

    Having said that, I’m not sure why you’d want a Joystick on flash mode on your head, that just seems a bit odd to me. Stick it on your bars instead and see if it being a bit lower stops the whiny little **** getting all uppity.

    richmars
    Full Member

    The really stupid bit about getting blinded by a fellow cyclist is that it’s not even dark when we meet. it’s about 8am on a well lit road, so why does he need 100000 watts?

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Motorists are very delicate little creatures, inside their massive metal boxes, aren’t they? Waa waa waa. Poor things.

    And I suppose the cyclists (above) that are saying exactly the same are whiny little **** too then eh ?

    Or are you just a car hater ?

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    And I suppose the cyclists (above) that are saying exactly the same are whiny little **** too then eh ?
    Or are you just a car hater dick ?
    [/quote]

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Ok, what light for maximum attention that won’t dazzle or give me a fit looking at flashing lights on the road in front of me?

    nickjb
    Free Member

    Are these people daft, or is my bike light inappropriate and inconsiderate?

    Definitely the latter. Treat it like main beam and dip it when there are other people around. Theres been a massive rise in inconsiderate cycling lights thanks to the cheap Chinese lights. Partly the brightness but mostly the beam shape. There is a German (iirc) standard for a proper, non dazzling beam pattern but very few lights comply

    Bustaspoke
    Free Member

    Motorists are very delicate little creatures, inside their massive metal boxes, aren’t they? Waa waa waa. Poor things.

    And some cyclists are self righteous arrogant tw*ts who piss everyone off.
    To the O/P,if other people are commenting on your light then point it downwards.
    When I’m driving & get dazzled by a cyclist I put my lights on full beam,see how they like it..

    somafunk
    Full Member

    There’s not a problem in using the Joystick mk7, I have one but i use it on my bars and i make sure it points down to a few feet in front on my wheel so it doesn’t dazzle nor cause a distraction to oncoming car drivers.

    monkeyfudger
    Free Member

    Absolutely! I keep seeing commuters with insanely bright, strobing lights and they’re dangerous. I reckon some motorists are actually mesmerised by them when they’re on the front and can’t quite work out where you are so just pull out anyway! As has been said if you’ve got it on your head it’s going to be right at eye level, blinding the person you’re trying to stop from crashing into you. When they’re that bright you’re also endangering other road users IMO.

    Something weird that I’ve noticed recently, on my fixie commuter I’ve got 1 solid & 1 flashing rear. On my winter bike I’ve got a dynamo set up which are approved for the strict German roads, front and rear are constant on, no flashing and the rear doesn’t seem as bright as the flasher on my commuter. I was originally intending on supplementing the Dynamo rear with a flashing light but didn’t on the bikes first ride out but cars were giving me a shit ton of room?? I thought it was strange so didn’t bother fitting the flasher for the next few rides and kept noticing cars giving me more room on the Dynamo setup than the flashing one despite using the same roads at the same time of day. I wasn’t expecting this at all and it goes against everything I’ve thought about lights? Reckon I’ll still get a flashing rear for the winter bike as I belive it’ll help me be seen by those not paying attention but at the moment I’m getting more space without one.

    gavinpearce
    Free Member

    As somafunk says- mount it on yr bars then you can aim it. As a driver I think lights better on bars as that’s where used to seeing them. Head lights should be off road only in my opinion. I use a joystick mk 2 on my bars for road riding – have it aimed lowish and flashing on every ride.

    jameso
    Full Member

    There’s good reasons why the German light regs are what they are. Brightness isn’t so much the issue its the diffusion or beam pattern, torch-beam lights with higher outputs really are not good for other road users unless angled pretty low, at which point they’re not as useful as the output might suggest.

    I’d echo monkeyfudgers comment, I perceive better courtesy from drivers at night since using German legal f + r, non flashing lights that have good beam spread. Standing a way from my bike on a lane, it’s very visible but not dazzling at all. Maybe by strobing everyone to feel like we’re being seen we just pss off the sort of drivers that are inclined to take out their annoyance on us.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    You know when you’re driving or riding on country roads and someone coming the other way doesn’t dip their headlights full beam? And you have to slow down cos you can’t see properly any more? Bit annoying, isn’t it?

    Front bike lights: Really bright is ok, flashing is OK, really bright and flashing can get to a level which makes anyone looking at it clench their eyes shut and turn their head away. Can be dangerous and comes across as unnecessary and possibly obnoxious.

    There’s a few a month I see that make me think that on my 12 mile central London commute.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    I’ve a Schmidt dynamo hub hooked up to a B&M Cyo front light on my commuter (complies with German motoring laws) along with a Moon comet on flashing mode (which doesn’t). The Comet is pointed downwards. On the rear I’ve a Moon comet in flash mode.

    This setup is good enough for a commute that is 1/3rd canal towpath, 1/3rd lit urban roads and 1/3 unlit rural roads. MTB lights are *not* suitable for on road use as they don’t have diffusers or an appropriate beam pattern.

    deadkenny
    Free Member

    It’s an off road light being used on road. Likely doesn’t meet the relevant legal standard for road use, so if a cop was to stop you, there may be issues. Unlikely though as most bike lights are not road legal these days. Not that many people even use lights.

    http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations

    Myself, I’m no fan of flashing lights as a driver. Yes flashing can aid in visibility to others but if only flashing then it can hamper it too. When off in the distance or a corner of the drivers eye situation, blink and you miss it. Static, the light is always visible. Not to mention for the rider you can actually see the road.

    As an off roader, when I (rarely) hit the road I angle my lights a little to the left where there’s oncoming traffic. Cars are illegal if they’re not deflected properly, and same really should apply to bikes.

    However I have lights with an adjustable mount whereas some cannot be adjusted. Though helmet light you can just turn head slightly to the left.

    Oh, and run at the lowest setting on road.

    2002
    Free Member

    I run a the defusers lens on my cree light I use on the road which makes them more like a car dip beam head light pattern which I leave on all the time and then have another one with out the lens fitted to act as a main beam light when I am in the lanes. The defuser lens really spreads the light in a flat pattern so it lights the road in front of you with out the long range spot light. Worth the £4 for the lens.

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    Wow. Touched a nerve there.

    Seems to me cyclists can’t get anything right, that’s all. Lights dim, you’re trying to get yourself killed. Lights bright, you’re being inconsiderate and horrible to the poor hard-done-by motorist. I drive a lot and I ride a lot and I’ve honestly never been dazzled by a cyclist’s light. Been dazzled by plenty of dopey motorists though.

    Anyway, you grown-ups carry on giving the OP a good kicking from your high-horses, I’ll get back under my bridge.

    captaintomo
    Free Member

    Why does this thread even exist? OP, surely common sense must avail here?

    allthepies
    Free Member

    There’s common sense….

    …and there’s mintimperial 🙂

    Three_Fish
    Free Member

    Flashing lights on bicycle are, in my experience, a bit of an problem. I find it harder to keep track of a potential obstacle if it’s flashing, like watching somebody moving under a strobe light. I see the visual advantage of a flashing light, in that it grabs attention, but they should only be used alongside a fixed lamp, in my opinion. Fluorescent/reflective clothing is much better for making a cyclist visible. One of the best lights I’ve seen is the straps that attach to the ankle – it spins around and gets attention in an unusual way; pretty neat.

    As for bright lights, I’m not sure that I even see the point if there are street lamps. I suppose they could be pointed at the road directly in front of the bike, but having them shining down the way and into drivers’ eyes is just irresponsible.

    When I’m driving & get dazzled by a cyclist I put my lights on full beam,see how they like it..

    Then everyone is blind, which should really reduce the chances of an accident. Good job. Try knocking your lights off for a moment, might make people think in the other direction…

    Superficial
    Free Member

    Surely the issue is that in running a too-bright light you’re actually making yourself less safe? It’s harder to judge distance of you’re being dazzled and you can’t steer whatever vehicle you’re using properly because the only thing you can see is the bright light (and you don’t know how far away that is).

    nickjb
    Free Member

    Seems to me cyclists can’t get anything right, that’s all. Lights dim, you’re trying to get yourself killed. Lights bright, you’re being inconsiderate and horrible to the poor hard-done-by motorist

    That’s two ways of getting it wrong. There are ways to get it right as well. Its not just the poor motorists, it’s all other road users too, it just has a bigger impact on drivers as their vision is already reduced. Sorry if it is inconvenient to be considerate.

    pdw
    Free Member

    Flashing lights on bicycle are, in my experience, a bit of an problem.

    They can also be very useful at picking you out as “not a car”, but they don’t need to be very bright to do that, and I’d only use it in addition to steady light.

    Good to see increasing coverage of the problem of very bright, unshaped beams – hopefully we’ll see some more lights with decent road beam patterns in the future.

    I’ve got a modified Philips Saferide and it’s notable that the beam pattern is not only more friendly to other people, but it does a much better job of lighting up the road in front of you evenly.

    DezB
    Free Member

    The issue is, like most situations on the road – there are too many stupid idiots in cars.
    Ok, so I wouldn’t have a flashing helmet light, but the OP is just doing his best to be seen.
    Bike lights ARE NOT AS BRIGHT AS CAR HEADLIGHTS. These stupid drivers don’t realise this – they are aware of and familiar with car headlights and therefore don’t look at them. But when they see a bike light, for some reason they stare at it and get all offended that there’s a bright thing “in their way” that isn’t another **** vehicle.
    ARGH! I’ve got a right bee in me bonnet about this – I was riding up an unlit road with my Hope Vision 2 OFF and my 5W pissy little eBay light on flash. This **** in a BMW coming the other way FLASHED their lights at me! 5W! I so wanted to give them a piece of my mind but I’ll use this thread for the rant instead.

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    I say this every time – wear reflective clothing and shine light on yourself

    Most drivers won’t deliberately hit you once they know what you are and have clearly seen you. Why look like a distant plane coming in to land when you can look like a person on the road just in front of them

    Using a superbright flashing light is just stupid in anything other than daylight, IMO

    If you need to see where you’re going as well, something like this

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    The CTC link (posted twice) is very good, and explains the issue well.

    Its the small point light source that makes them dazzling, not the lumens per se.

    They also measure how well the Germn lights dazzliness tapers off when you are not looking direclty at them compared to Joystick and so on.

    ( I use a Joystick too, but angled downwards on the bars)

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    @pdw – modified saferide ? Is that to stop stray upward light ? What have you done ?
    (I’ve wondered about the slight overspill but seems to need a very long “peak” on the unit to stop it)

    DezB
    Free Member

    Using a superbright flashing light is just stupid in anything other than daylight, IMO

    What I’m saying is that it doesn’t have to be a “superbright” light to piss some drivers off. Just them noticing that we’re on “their” roads is enough.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    As a driver, I can live with it. On the rare occasion I’m dazzled I tend to think “Wow, I saw him / her from bloody miles away” and it’s no worse than the multitude of cars driving around with wonky headlights.

    A strobing light does, admittedly, tend to make it slightly more difficult to judge distance but my attitude tends to be to slow down slightly until I’m sure instead of driving straight into the flashing light.

    I wonder people who are easily dazzled (whether car or bike) are perhaps experiencing the early signs of cataracts, which can start to form before the age of 40 depending on UV exposure in yoof.

    tonyg2003
    Full Member

    We were doing an off road ride round Boxhill last year and did a sort stretch of road. Some of the group forgot to lower their lights and we were stopped by a police car and asked to dip our lights. It was fair enough really. Seriously powerful off road lights pointed up for off road use are too bright for the road. I use a Use Diablo as a Headlight on road but on the lowest setting and not pointing directly up the road.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    Dipped car lights are angled into the kerb so as not to dazzle oncoming motorists / cyclists etc. The people complaining to the OP have no idea how bright his lights were in comparison to theirs and it has no relevance. The OP’s light wasn’t angled and was dazzling oncoming traffic.

    Bustaspoke
    Free Member

    wonder people who are easily dazzled (whether car or bike) are perhaps experiencing the early signs of cataracts, which can start to form before the age of 40 depending on UV exposure in yoof

    On the rare occasion I’ve been dazzled it’s been on a country lane & the cyclist had a constant light angled far to high,all they had to do was dip the light..
    I use both a flashing light & a constant light aimed not to dazzle everyone else.

    jamesfts
    Free Member

    Bike lights ARE NOT AS BRIGHT AS CAR HEADLIGHTS.

    Possibly not but car lights are checked yearly and calibrated to have a set cutoff point so not to dazzle oncoming traffic. Admittedly not much help if the oncoming car isn’t prepared to dip them on the 1st place though.

    The problem with bike lights is that it’s down to the rider to align them. When on the road I turn my helmet light off and manually cover the beam of my bar light for on coming cars. Just try to be courteous to other road users regardless of mode of transport.

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    Dez – tiny lights look way brighter than car-sized ones anyway for soem reason, and the flashes are a nightmare for working out how far away you are, and how fast you’re approaching.
    The ones that stay on with background light and then “pulse” are better but still not great

    You’re right, some drivers are **** but that won’t change regardless of what lights you use. For drivers who aren’t arseholes, unless your flasher is a 2 quid job that just clips on, you’re honestly not helping yourself. I think for most drivers a small, ded bright light source that’s shining right at them is a motorbike on full beam, 100yds away.

    Added to that, really bright lights, especially if flashing and “unlensed” are awful as they’re too bright to look at which means either drivers don’t look right at you so won’t quite know where you are and/or they get blinded as you go over a bump, lift your head or whatever.

    Surely you’ve been on a nightride and had another rider look back towards you as you’re riding – it’s bloody awful

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Dipped car lights are angled into the kerb so as not to dazzle oncoming motorists / cyclists etc. The people complaining to the OP have no idea how bright his lights were in comparison to theirs and it has no relevance. The OP’s light wasn’t angled and was dazzling oncoming traffic.

    This.

    I pass a couple of commuters on a tree lined cycle path every morning, and the angle they have their lights at is ridiculous.

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