Thanks Schnor – yes, that was my thought really, it’s a concept that you sort of ‘know it when you see it’ – I was thinking that it would be very hard to ascertain whether someone had or hadn’t ‘given way’ if there was a complaint.

Having a read there’s some case law of drivers being done for careless driving by going through junctions without giving way despite no other road user present or having been forced to take evasive action – no idea how you would show that.

so jogers 3 abreast running at me and forcing me off the path is ok ….because thats what they allways ?

Whilst I will always try to slow down/stop, where appropriate, The above scenario is particularly difficult to know how to handle.
If you stop, the joggers still have to move over, in order to pass you, so it would be just as easy for them to move over while you cycle slowly past them.

It’s all a bit bewildering really – people are just a bit strange, sometimes.

(I also have questions about the use of bells – if don’t ring my bell, I get “Where’s” your bell, if I do ring it, I feel like I’m saying “Get out of my way!!”)

Lots of fire-roads where I live and ramblers insist on walking 6 or 7 abreast leaving with no consideration for any cyclists (and there are a fair few)

I tend to show them the respect they deserve and find it best to sneak around them rather than startle them as find they panic (in much the same weight a caught out deer does)

so jogers 3 abreast running at me and forcing me off the path is ok ….because thats what they allways ?

Had this last night in fact; a team of joggers and a dog off a lead that took up the whole bridleway between them.

None of them looked like they were going to make any room, or take charge of the dog, so I simply stopped dead and allowed them to work their way around me. It probably cost them more time to do this than it would to have made some space.

Actually did about 9 miles of NCN / B/W this morning and encountered everything from horseists to a big group of ‘tourists’ doing some kind of social bike ride.

For once I didn’t encounter any doggists with those f’%kn lethal extending leads though quite a few of them were plugged in. I personally find this annoying and rude especially when you ride up behind someone. No amount of “Hello”, “Cyclist”, bells, or clacky freewheels will make any difference.

Just about everyone responded to my ‘morning!’s and ‘thank you!’s which was nice and required no effort on any party. Only issue I had were a couple of joggers who did single up only for their free running dog to dart across in my path.

Tis not difficult for us to share the roads and paths

You know the worlds donald ducked when we need laws for this sort of stuff.

I do take your point, but access has always been an issue very close to people’s hearts, bound up as it is in class, privilege and land ownership.

Consider the mass trespass of Kinder Scout in 1932. The ordinary worker saw that access to the countryside was important for their health and happiness, so they took direct action to attack the class interests that saw the countryside as the playground of the landed gentry.

I believe that cyclists face a similar crisis at present. As a mode of transport, cycling is marginalised, as our transport systems are geared for the motor vehicle. Plus, look at the rigmarole involved in trying to take your bike on a train.

As a leisure pursuit, cycling is marginalised by those who see the roads as the place for cars, pavements, seafronts and parks as the place for pedestrians, footpaths for walkers, bridleways for ramblers and horses, towpaths for, well, anyone but us… etc

Trail centres have their critics, but at least you can ride there in the knowledge that no-one’s going to try to tell you you don’t belong there. The same with Sustrans trails etc. However, do we want to be pushed into these specific ghettoes, or do we want to be able to enjoy the whole of the countryside without the nagging feeling that we’re pissing people off just by being there?

Round my manor, some of the best riding is on footpaths. To have to avoid these routes, because of some outdated and unclear legislation, is an injustice, in my opinion. So there’s a local saying: “Ride where you like, but don’t be a dick.” I’m sure some of you will disagree with this unofficial policy, but I strongly believe that the controversy around cycling on footpaths (and, indeed, the heirarchy on bridleways) is simply a matter of legislation failing to keep up with the changes in usage that have occurred since the advent of off-road cycling.

Flame away.

The marginalisation of cycling is everything to do with the debate in that the anger and violence towards cyclists only really started when cycling began to demarginalise itself about five years ago. The underlying issue is people struggling to cope with change – I find walkers are much better with MTBs than they were in mid-90s – they’ve basically had time to get used to sharing the paths now.
Central London is far better to ride in the outer London IMO – in terms of lower levels of abuse – because the numbers of riders are just so huge now, it’s normal to encounter a cyclist when driving in the centre.
In time, therefore, I think the acceptance will come, but UK is a right-of-centre/conservative (with a small c) country – we don’t do revolution, we do quiet evolution so it’ll be a few more years yet until the antis untwist their knickers

The marginalisation of cycling is everything to do with the debate in that the anger and violence towards cyclists only really started when cycling began to demarginalise itself about five years ago. The underlying issue is people struggling to cope with change – I find walkers are much better with MTBs than they were in mid-90s – they’ve basically had time to get used to sharing the paths now.
Central London is far better to ride in the outer London IMO – in terms of lower levels of abuse – because the numbers of riders are just so huge now, it’s normal to encounter a cyclist when driving in the centre.
In time, therefore, I think the acceptance will come, but UK is a right-of-centre/conservative (with a small c) country – we don’t do revolution, we do quiet evolution so it’ll be a few more years yet until the antis untwist their knickers

I agree with every word.

It would also help if outdated legislation (such as the topic of this thread) were rewritten to reflect the equal status of cyclists.

their free running dog to dart across in my path.

did he just run across, or did he do a few jumps and somersaults over obstacles on the path, etc ?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpIjWkBRZiY[/video]

because the numbers of riders are just so huge now

…and thats the crux of the matter.

Cycling is now so popular (which is no bad thing; health, environment etc), but the sudden influx will take other users of roads, trails etc time to get used to…there also needs to be consideration from cyclists to other trail/road users as contrary to popular belief on STW we dont have some god given right of way over everybody else.

I usually cycle by myself and have never had a problem with drivers, ramblers, dog walkers, horse riders etc…

…if its a horse coming the other way i slow down and move as far away as possible, they are bigger than me and easily spooked by the most minor of things…i’d rather not have half a ton of equine muscle crush me.

Joggers, ramblers, dog walkers etc get a courteous nod, smile and ‘hello’ from me and i move to the side of the path/road/trail/bridleway etc and they usually do the same on their side…no problems.

Dogs?…meh, i like dogs and couldnt care less if they’re off the lead, i usually stop for a fuss and a chat anyway the soppy things.

Cyclists who tend to be on the receiving end of abuse or who cause problems are usually clearly visible, they’re usually hammering along full of their own self importance and dont slow up for anything or anybody…then have the temerity to moan about inconsiderate drivers on a different thread on STW without seeing the irony in their own obnoxious behaviour when on shared paths/trails/bridleways.

Ditto the groups who dont slow down for horses, families out with pushchairs, elderly couples etc…they all have as much right to be there as you but when 6 of the idiots come thrashing down a path taking up most of the space it looks and feels intimidating, a little insight wouldnt go amiss but is often lost in the herd mentality when a group of middle aged d**kheads get together on MTBs.

There have been people on here moaning about joggers running side by side and forcing the cyclist to move over or slow up on bridleways….hmmm, now you get a sense of what its like being in a car behind two cyclists as they pedal along two abreast chatting nonchalantly as traffic builds behind them….you cant have it both ways, being on a bike unfortunately seems to instill a ‘holier than thou’ attitude in a lot of people and turns them into very selfish individuals where their own endeavours and enjoyment becomes the priority.
Part of being on shared use roads/trails etc is recognising when your actions are inconveniencing others and trying to mitigate this….if you genuinely cant avoid holding people up then a shrug or a wave to say you tried is usually all thats required, if you can take to a cycle path for a bit and allow traffic past then doing so does wonders for the perception of cyclists and is a polite and considerate thing to do….why wouldnt you?!…and yet there are plenty on bicycles who seem to go out of their way to inconvenience and annoy other road users simply because they can….the ‘why should i?’ mentality is unfortunate but if more people thought about those around them instead of ‘their rights’ to use said road/trail/bridleway then there’d be a far more harmonious relationship between other road users and cyclists.

I’ve cycled all over Wales and the South East in particular and never had trouble…in the same way that i’ve been a Paramedic for 15 years and never had any trouble either….and yet plenty of my colleagues continuously get grief/abuse/violence on an alarmingly regular basis….funny how this kind of thing tends to follow certain people around, victim blaming?…you bet, the same names come up time and again in complaints at work and the same names seem to be the ones getting assaulted all the time, do they go to more risky calls than anybody else?…do they heck, they simply have an attitude problem and dont seem to be able to get along with other people….unfortunately these people are everywhere and some of them ride bikes too.

This thread isn’t about access it’s about the legal heirarchy of yielding ground when you meet another human being. which if everyone was the person they **** well should be would just be a matter of making room for one another.

There have been people on here moaning about joggers running side by side and forcing the cyclist to move over or slow up on bridleways..

I pretty much agree with the rest of your thread, but thing about the joggers was more about them pretty much expecting oncoming cyclists to somehow disappear completely, so that they could continue to take up the whole width of the path.
Slowing down or stopping would not change the amount of room that they expect.

This. I amazes me the speed that strava says people go down one narrow and well used bridle way with blind corners near me. Meet anything going the other way at 50kmh and someone will end up in the hospital.

You know you can flag it as dangerous?

ferrals – Member
I amazes me the speed that strava says people go down one narrow and well used bridle way with blind corners near me. Meet anything going the other way at 50kmh and someone will end up in the hospital.

Which b/w is that? I’m trying to work out which bridleways you’ve got on your side of town with blind corners.