I like the fact that Hope stuff is made just up the road from me, and they were really helpful when I needed some advice on sorting out a second hand brake I had bought. Try that with Shimano.
They might not be the best for the price but they are good enough and the support is worth something.
"I like the fact that Hope stuff is made just up the road from me, and they were really helpful when I needed some advice on sorting out a second hand brake I had bought. Try that with Shimano."
Yup, credit where it's due, their warranty really is superb. Being able to buy seperate seals and the like for their brakes is a big plus as well, people say "Yeah well you don't need to be able to get spares for Shimano" but that's nonsense, they're more reliable but nothing's 100% reliable.
I just got rid of a set of basic (525) shimano brakes new to replace with second hand hopes. The shimanos worked fine and there is no real difference betweeb the feel of them - maybe a touch more modulation with the hopes.
However the shimano had a mild steel split pin thru a cast hole with loads of play for pad retention, the hope a macnined stainless pin and spring clip. All hope spares are available for years - the shimanos have no spares available even now.
The second hand hopes were bled thru and the pistons lubed - all worked fine. No further fettling needed in the 3 months they have been on.
They really are not the same market. I don't want to ever buy another brake for this bike. Hopes are expensive rebuildable. Shimano are cheap disposable.
In the four years I have used hope brakes with now 4 pairs of them all bought secondhand for thousands of miles use I have rebuilt one master cylinder and 2 calipers when seals went. Other than that faultless. Bleeding is easy and pads last a long time
i lost a part of the clamp for my brakes last week a quick phone call and the part arrived next morning foc cant see many other places doing that. I used to have minis now have m4s also have xc and pro2 hubs and a vision 4 and cant fault any of it
Overrated.
+1 for Deore with 200mm rotors and organic pads. Out performed 2 mates on hope m4's during a trip to the alps. M4's fried and squealed on the long descents. Guide recconed they are ok for uk but not up to extreme decents.
Hopes do look much better. Ok if you want to pay a 'cool' tax!
the dyno feature in the magazine was with normal organic pads which come as standard. with alot of the other brakes they use the sintered pads. ive just put sintered in mine and has made a hell of a difference!
i would like to see then put it on again and see what happends.
ive got alot of there products on my bike. headset bb clamps tech x2s and i love it, the quality is great IMO.
i couldnt give a toss if one brakes better than mine i like what i have i worked hard to get it and well it puts a smile on my face!
if you like shimano etc then good for you.
I imagine Hope are well aware of this, but those without the knowledge think it looks lovely and 'machined' so it works very well for them on two counts.
As an Engineer & CNC programmer, I think the Hope calipers look good. Seems an intentional finish and it works for me 
All my Hope stuff has been perfect so far.
Another happy Deore user, tried loads of brakes, these are by far the best, totally reliability, effortless pad change, much cheapness (new caliper £25) when they're that cheap I don't care that you can't get seals as spares, like Druid haven't touched/bleed them in 5 years. Perfect. I know Hope Customer Service is good, but I've never had to use Shimano Customer service...
Hope hubs are nowt special, replacing the bearings on my rear XC was a PITA, but they did last, so can't really complain, rear skewer seems to last forever...Struggling now to find stuff to say...
Shimano are cheap disposable.
Mostly, but mine have lasted 5 years, as have druids, plus all the other happy Shim users. Give me reliable good brakes for 5 years that are cheap to replace, over having to eff about with them all the time.
northwind
power is nothing without control ..... yes Deores are powerful but are on and off
Yes that will give a high output in a power test
deores are the same. shite from speed because they have a tendancy to lock up quite easy......but feel sharp as tacks in the carpark test
only brake ive had issues with in the last 10 years having had c2s , e4s , mono m4s and minis - hayes soles - shimano XT (twice - servo waves and 755s) avid BB7s , saints have been one pair of XTs where i melted the seals riding down ben nevis north face path. - i used to ride alot worse on my hopes when i race downhill at sda and nps even my C2 Closed system never had issues !
. yes Deores are powerful but are on and off
Every single Shimano brake I've ever used is entirely the opposite to that, if anything a bit spongy. I like on/off switches, as I'm the last of the late brakers, and to get them to perform like that, I had to fit some Goodridge hoses to mine.
Nickc - I don't have to eff about with the hopes either often.
Northwind - MemberGo on then, if it's so obvious
It's obvious to anyone with a basic grasp of scientific method. Google it.
Aye, cool.
I've mates who swear by them just like you. If you get a "good" pair they do seem pretty reliable tough brakes.
So, in summary hopes are powerful, easily repairble and good value if a little (10g) heavy.
The same cannot be said for formula etc etc etc.
Shimanos are good and rarely go wrong but if they do, buy a new set.
The choice is yours.
Spot on I'd say, backhander
Interesting. With reference to the OP..."that they (the machinist) could make fairly easily" ...no doubt they could, (in a Blue Peter style 'here's one we made earlier style). Howevere it seems to me that there's much more too engineering than just making something.
For instance could the same folk, design , develop, manufacture, market, and support the product? Then repeat for other products. It seems Hope Technology can do all that, and do it very well indeed. There was a imformative interview in an old issue of STrkMag which covered a some of the things mentioned in this thread...in particular the 'Hope' look was mentioned.
I just wish they'd get on and make some nice flat pedals.. What with it being the last product on a bike with bearings that they haven't yet produced...maybe that seatpost took up all the prototyping time!
'bout right backhander
In my experience, Hope stuff is either brilliant...or frustrating.
I'm assuming its down to attempting tight tolerances...however if it goes a bit wrong then it shows...other times the QC seems off
I've had a set of mini's that were impossible to setup without them rubbing, and when they were setup ok the pistons would stick out at the slightest provocation
However I also had a mini that was absolutely perfect
My front Pro 2 ate 2 sets of bearings in a year
The rear one has been brilliant
Hope were motorcycle trials riders that happened to be engineers and produced products for their trials bikes that they wanted to use.
They moved on to mountainbiking as a hobby, and produced products for their own mountainbikes.
People saw these products and wanted to buy them. So they quit their day jobs and produced them.
Hope still produce products that mountainbikers want to buy and use.
The other major manufacturers produce products and market them at mountainbikers. Therein the difference lies.
Hope originally produced products to supply for demand. They've grown a bit now, but if people wanted to buy your snot you'd sell it to them I'd wager.
Other manufacturers market desgins to try to create demand for their products.
I'm a fan of Hope and Shimano brakes. Both work well and are easy to service.
Hayes have been producing brakes since 1929, and they still can't make a brake I'd like to use regularly.
The best brake is the one YOU trust to stop you. It doesn't matter what brand or constuction they are, it's down to personal preference. Nobody can win an argument on this subject as we all have different needs.
Just agree to disagree and get on with riding FFS.
Hope brakes are worth the money if you like them. So is any other brake.
I'm with him ^^^^
Loco, could it be any more obvious that you have no clue 
"It's obvious", but you can't say any more than that. Ho hum.
Clue- instead of banging on abotu scientific methodology, tell us why this particular test's methodology is "laughable". Wheel goes round, brake slows it, results are recorded. You wouldn't want to submit it for peer review but then that's not the purpose of the test.
A bike forum is no place for you to get an education Northwind - try the local FE college. Happy to help
I'm with skyline-gtr! I like hope as a company and rate their products; currently running their hubs on my road bike and soul, and using their headset and ceramic bb. I used to be a dedicated user of their brakes until my front mini mono decided that the nut holding the hose onto the caliper would come loose halfway down a scotish hillside, and just dump brake fluid onto the rotor when I tried to stop. Now I don't blame hope, and am still a customer of theirs, but the very visible remaining scar on my wrist means I won't trust their brakes again, and whilst somewhat irrational, I have to trust my kit, and whilst another freak incident could strike my lovely louise's, it hasn't yet.
Just a thought, but has anyone read this thread and thought either: -
a) I've been wrong about Hope, Shimano aren't all that, I'm going to switch my brakes.
or
b) I've been wrong about Shimano, Hope aren't all that, I'm going to switch my brakes.
Just for the record, I have two bikes worth of e4s that still run perfectly (so perfectly that I can't justify getting the new M4s no matter how much I want them)
I also have 4 wheels worth BULB hubs that I love to bits. I've even have a pair of Pro II hubs in the spares box for when I get a new cross frame with disc mounts.
theboatman.....It's clearly yourself you shouldn't trust. Brake hoses don't just decide to leave a caliper 
Whatever the merits of various brakes, you have to make compromises regarding price , too. If two brakes do a good job do you buy Hope or say, Shimano which are can be not far off half the price? Obviously if money is no object you choose on all the other criteria. I recently needed to replace some terrible Formulas and very nearly bought Hopes but ended up with SLXs mainly because they were £40 cheaper a wheel and I had had good experiences with previous Shimanos
i like the hubs, i have one on my hardtail and have run it for four years no complaints. Got one on my orange alpine and I snapped the pawls and internal axle after a couple of months! That might just have been bad luck though! So i guess I am saying I like the hubs! Plus I like the noise!!!!
i have some moto v2 brakes and they are complete shite! They work for a week, then bust then go back to the shop get bled checked out etc then are amazing for a week. Then the whole process repeats itself! Its not just one either its bloody both!!!!!
Going to get myself some saints! fit and forget!
i used to be in the hope camp,had most things on my bike hubs,brakes,headset,bb then i noticed other manufacturers stuff started looking nicer getting lighter etc. then i bought a pair of mini pro brakes which just did not stop me (and i am a light bloke) when i tried to sort it i was told that i should have bought a normal mini.great.
had allways had hope untill then.
pypdjl, is that genuinely all you've got?
No, it's not all I have got, but you asked why it was obvious to someone with a basic grasp of science. Without an estimate of the error in the measurements, the graphs are totally meaningless.
Nickegg-you are so right I now stop every hundred yards to check all nuts, ride at moderate speeds on smooth surfaces to avoid vibration, and never ride near any obsticles that could obstruct my progress. For what it's worth, the brass nut insert simply came loose, it had been fine for the 5 hours riding up to that point. When I called at the nearest bike shop to get a spanner for the nut, the chap kindly popped out tightened it up and said 'they don't usually do that'. I'm reasonably good at a quick pre-ride bike check and lube, as in 'owt loose? Brakes work, gears works, tyres ok , qr's tight etc, and this has stood me good for 20 odd years. Sometimes things break, it happens, but given your stance I'm glad you have 100% eliminated risk from your life, well done.
it used to happen to me boatman on the front brake.
i realised it was the way i was putting it in the car.the banjo was leaning on something and as i drove it was enough to moove it loose.
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