Been using Citroen mineral oil to bleed my brakes with however I took them to the shimano stall on the weekend at the enduro cos they weren’t working at all but it was down to me forgetting to put the little o ring seal back on the resovouir bleed screw so was getting air in, he obviously said it was that but also said using Citroen oil is the worst thing to put in! I’ve been using citreon oil all the time on shimano brakes with out any problems, I know it’s heavier but still seems to work fine, I was in a rush and forgot to ask why it’s bad for them, so do I throw the rest of the citreon oil away or is he just saying it cos he works for shimano?? He said it was worse than putting diesel in! 😯

Did he mention why it’s THE WORST THING to use ?

I would’ve thought sulphuric acid would be close to one of the worst things you could put in your brakes, but hey…

No I should have asked, but was in a rush, like I said, I’ve never had a problem with Citroen mineral oil so why would it be worse than putting diesel in? 😕

halfords LHM has been used in my brakes for years and never had any problems. its also a nice radioactive day glow green colour.

I have heard of people using vegetable oil at a push…so I’d be surprised if engine oil is the worst thing you could use. Corrosive DOT fluid would be worse I’d imagine!

is he just saying it cos he works for shimano

Suspect this, or he misunderstood you and thought you meant brake fluid (DOT), or he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I use Halfords LHM in mine without problem.
Worst things to put in your brakes would include live ferrets, molten lava and your own blood. A slightly different grade of mineral oil shouldn’t be an issue.

live ferrets

That’s just mean…

ive 3in1 oil in my deore brakes for the past 4 years, no problem at all.

“…so I’d be surprised if engine oil is the worst thing…”

I assumed shaggmiester meant Citroen mineral brake oil. Not the same thing as engine oil at all.

The ferrets won’t be alive for long 😉 They’ll be nicely done after a long descent. 🙂

LHM from Halfords for the passed 5 years and still not dead through brake failure………

If you want brakes that do not perform properly and have a much reduced heat capacity then carry on using LHM.

Otherwise do what you’re told by the guys that know what they’re on about.

I’ve not got hyd brakes, but I work with hydraulic systems and I wouldn’t use engine oil for them unless in emergency. Viscosity would be too far off especially in winter

I’ve used LHM in my XTs before – the main difference I noticed was that, presumably due to the higher viscosity, the lever action was really slow and damped. Didn’t make much difference in practice, but they definitely feel better now bled with Shimano oil. Much more ‘immediate’ action.

MidlandTrailquestsGraham – Member
“…so I’d be surprised if engine oil is the worst thing…”

I assumed shaggmiester meant Citroen mineral brake oil. Not the same thing as engine oil at all.
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Argh yeah ta, that’s what I meant! I’m sure it says LHM Citroen mineral oil but I may be wrong, anyhow, I’ve been using the stuff a long time and had it in my front brake and the shimano oil in the back brake and tbh they both felt amazing!

evenfasterson – Member
If you want brakes that do not perform properly and have a much reduced heat capacity then carry on using LHM.
Otherwise do what you’re told by the guys that know what they’re on about.
POSTED 10 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Appreciate your views, but can you tell me why mine have been working just as good as the shimano oil??

Used LHM for years with no issues at all. In Citroëns and on Shimano brakes.

As it happens, Citroën even recommend using mineral engine oil in an emergency (I’ve done it) and just flush and refill with LHM once the leak is fixed

If LHM has the heat capacity to deal with a 2-plus tonne car braking from 100mph, whilst also maintaining the correct viscosity to keep the struts operating, and the power steering then I reckon it can manage the abuse in a mountain bike.

evenfasterson – Member

If you want brakes that do not perform properly and have a much reduced heat capacity then carry on using LHM.
Got any facts to back that up?
I’ve got mine properly warm (smoking pads / blue’d discs) and never had any issues with heat capacity, or any issues with them at all. Been using LHM for 10 years now.

If you want brakes that do not perform properly and have a much reduced heat capacity then carry on using LHM.

is that a fact or just utter b/s on your part?
been using lhm them in the alps for 5 seasons with zero problems.
LHM boiling point of 250°C, DOT 5.1 270 °C

shimano in keeping profitable 20 quid a litre oil myth going to keep profits high…..

Pete knows a bit about this…

…but also said using Citroen oil is the worst thing to put in!

What exactly did you tell him you used? As you can see from this thread, it’s easy to interpret the statement in a number of ways. 😉

How much are you guys bleeding your bleeding brakes? I know this LHM stuff is cheap as chips but when will you ever use a litre of the stuff? I last bled my Shimano brakes when I fitted them and that was at least 4 years ago, they don’t feel any different to this day and taking the caps off the fluid looks just the same. While it’s great to buy in bulk and “save some money” all you’re doing is having to store a load more of something.*

Surely Shimano are just selling you a convenient amount in a special little bottle?

* Caveat that if you own a Citroen and do your own servicing or do a group buy between Shimano brake using mates of course it makes perfect sense.

How much are you guys bleeding your bleeding brakes?

When they need it. Which, to date, is never…

Why CITROEN oil specifically? Is it different to other engine oils?

for a start its not citroen engine oil.
its lhm. for the suspension, power steering and brake system

Does the Shimano fluid help prevent sticky pistons in any way? That’s the only problem I keep getting with my Shimano brakes (currently using halfords LHM fluid).

greeble – Member
for a start its not citroen engine oil.
its lhm. for the suspension, power steering and brake system

Ah someone mentioned engine oil further up…..
So why Citroen lhm and not cheaper stuff from a motor factor?
I’m not picking, I’m interested

I use mine in Spain on mad descents and I am a woos, meaning lots of brakes and never have they faded on me, ever on LHM. I bleed mine maybe once a year, before a ‘big’ ride such as Spain and they do feel a bit better after a bleed, but tell me a system that doesnt after a refresh. I believe Rolls used the same system in their multi ton cars without issues with failures and that was also pressurising it to thousands of psi as well.

<pedant>

Question to the OP – ever heard of paragraphs?

</pedant>

<pedant>

It’s Total LHM, not Citroën.

Citroën specify it for use on their hydropneumatic cars, as do (as mentioned above) Rolls Royce, along with Bentley and Mercedes.

And it’s Citroën, or at a push Citroen, but not Citreon.

(And the Halfords LHM does seem as good as the ‘real’ Total stuff)

</pedant>

So you use Shimano engine oil now?

S’funny, my lhm is from castrol. Where does that fit in the pedants view of all things correct?

According to Pete ^ linky up there somewhere the Castrol stuff is thicker and thus less good than Citroen/Total/Halfords, but still better than live ferrets or shrimps.

Works fine for me, no issues at all.

Pimpmaster Jazz – Member
<pedant>
Question to the OP – ever heard of paragraphs?
</pedant>
POSTED 19 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Sorry if my lack of education offends you! 🙄

Judging by what other people have said I will stick with the lhm Citroen brake fluid as nobody has a good enough reason as why not to. Cheers all. 😀

Have used LHM / Pentosin in Magura rim brakes and Giant MPH discs for the last +20 years with no problems and no appreciable difference in action. Initially started using it in the old pre-disc days when Magura oil was only stocked at a handful of shops and came in teeny tiny bottles.

Nowadays, it is still much easier to find a litre of LHM from any local car parts shop than trawl around looking for Shimano oil (esp if needed in an emergency on an evening or Sunday afternoon).

When Mrs was racing the odd World Cup, we’d frequently get the grumps and rolling eyes from the service man for using non Shimano chain / chainset / cables etc……..

Plenty of other stuff might be compatible, but I hardly believe the following sentance to be true.

shimano in keeping profitable 20 quid a litre oil myth going to keep profits high…..

I paid £12 for the big (litre?) bottle 10 years ago and it’s barely 25% used!

That’s a cost of about 25p/year.

Other things costing 25p in biking terms:
25% of an energy gel
Petrol ued in the engine whilst running the portable jetwash.
Spoke nipple
Piece of ginger for baking carrot cake pre ride
A shower at a trail center if you share with 4 other guys (or ladies).

So other stuff might work, but the shimano stuff might work fractionaly better (lower viscocity, gaurenteed not to attack the seals, correct boiling point).

And I don’t buy the “it works in a 3 ton rolls royce” argument, it may well do, but it probably has over a litre of fluid and pads 10mm thick insulating the fluid from the brakes. MTB’s have 1mm thick pads and 20ml of fluid. They also don’t have ABS, or damping unlike either car brakes or suspension.

Tech Speak: Brake Fluid Break Down & Implications for Road Disc

Altough its difficult to believe that Shimano have made some apparently very easily damaged brakes.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.116

“Brake fluid means a liquid designed for use in a motor vehicle hydraulic brake system in which it will contact elastomeric components made of styrene and butadiene rubber (SBR), ethylene and propylene rubber (EPR), polychloroprene (CR) brake hose inner tube stock or natural rubber (NR). “

Makes you wonder what Shimano have found to use for their brake seals that cannot tolerate LHM or Magura brake fluid.

http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/Brake_Fluid/brake_fluid_long.html
http://www.centricparts.com/files/BrakeFluid.pdf

i saw something yesterday that said shimano fluid had a Boiling point of 190deg C

The bottle of LHM in my shed has a boiling point of 240 degrees C

Is it possible the LHM allows you to get more heat into the brake before failure – I have 2 brakes where the seals have failed due to heat decending ben nevis on 160s. – both were bled with shimano fluid though.