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is chris king worth it?
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Posted 2 years ago #
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having seen what the king headset on my 80mm equipped Bontrager race and the piccies of Hincappies trek i would never touch another king headset.
they may be durable but the patent avoidance means the design is $hit.
Clarify? Links etc?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I used to ruin cheap headsets at a rate of 1 a year and have had my CK headset for 2 years now without any issues. I had a Hope one that did OK and sold on S/H so Hope is also a good bet IMO
Another year with the CK headset and I'll be quids in. its been on 3 frames not with no issues on any. Always fitted by me.
I also have a Ck rear hub and its mint. Paid £215 (new) for it last year (for a prezzie to me for reaching 40!) in a sale. The speed it engages is ace and a few degrees of crank movement have the wheel engaging. I stripped it a few months ago to give it a wipe and it looked mint inside after 10 months of riding through crap. One of the bearings had some dirt in it the other was fresh as a daisy.
IMO, CK is worth it if you can get it less than RRP, but even then it will still be dearer than the competition.
As someone has already pointed out, it isn't fit and forget stuff. It needs to be looked after every so often and if you're willing to do that, you won't regret the investment.
My stripped hub. Machining marks still visible after 9 months!
Posted 2 years ago # -
best image i can find, whatever the official reason, the deep scores on my steerer do make me think there is more than has been officially said.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ive had scores on a steerer once- the headset wasnt fully tightened though. I think you have to over-torque to a degree.
Is the above a carbon steerer?
Posted 2 years ago # -
[url=Better pic]http://tinyurl.com/y9vjoue[/url]
It was aluminium.
I still stand by King headsets though (and I have steel steerers
So it probably wont affect me)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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That pic appears to be the only one that appears when people start moaning about the steerer damage caused by CK headsets. If this "damage" was such a serious problem you'd think the web would be groaning under the weight of pics of damaged steerers
I bought my CK stuff a couple of years ago when the exchange rate was much better, I haven't been tempted lately
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've had a Hope headset for 8 years.It had some freshgrease when It went onto its'second bike a year ago. I like having a Yeti that hasn't got a CK headset.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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That Hincapie bike had touring forks on it that perhaps weren't really up to being hammered on one of the hardest road races on the calender
Posted 2 years ago # -
dibbs, i know where you are coming from, but having seen the nice deep scores on my well adjusted headset i am not convinced. They may be well made, but the design has, IMO, a major flaw. If King used the same wedge set up as everyone else and paid Dia-Compe the licence i might think again.
Having used Campag, Dia-compe, and even bodged shimano in the past and present, nothing else i have come across has shown the same issue. For the money King wants i don't want any issues, however minor they may be.
Posted 2 years ago # -
big-chief-96 - Member
Is Chris King really worth spending the extra money on or is it better to go cheaper?
Surely it depends on the frame? Cheapo Halfords Apollo, no, but a decent quality frame would surely benefit from a quality headset?
For the record I've got a CK headset fitted to my Cove, part of the reason being I wanted a "fit & forget" headset, rather than bearings to replace, cups to pit etc. And as & when I need to get some new cranks, I'd probably consider the CK BB too.
Posted 2 years ago # -
7 sets of King wheels, no problems with any of them and most were bought second hand. 10 min home service every 6 months - year depending upon use. I know one set of hubs is 9 years old! No new bearings, no play, just faultless singlespeeding.
5 headsets no maintenance at all. The two non king headstes I had (Cane Creek I8 and FSA Orbit) both lasted less than a year.
Have replaced the I8 with a CC110 as it's an integrated dohicky.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Dibbs wrote,
"If this "damage" was such a serious problem you'd think the web would be groaning under the weight of pics of damaged steerer"
Maybe so, but how many photos have you seen of damage caused by an FSA headset? Even if it's not widespread, it's still a premium product with a possible performance issue. And IMO, it's just not significantly better than any of the decent FSAs, and no doubt plenty of other headsets. Not to mention that you can buy about 3 Orbit Xs for the price of one King.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've never serviced my King headset- am I supposed to? (genuine question). It feels smooth to me.
Another thing- Ive seen a few pics of snapped carbon road forks. Even a website dedictated to them posted on here once. Why doesnt everyone boycott carbon forks?
In part I think its user error and not ensuring your headset is properly torqued.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yawn.
The King haters always bring out the pic of Hincapie's Trek. But if you Google it, the second hit gives you this:
The accident which ended George Hincapie's 2006 Paris-Roubaix was almost certainly the result of damage from his first crash that could have been identified if he had stopped and changed to a backup bike
From here -
http://www.operationgadget.com/2006/04/trek_to_investigate_hincapie_c.htmlSo basically, the chances are you're all talking bollox.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Treat your bike, because its worth it (innit)
Posted 2 years ago # -
STW members in talking bollox like they're engineering experts shocker!
Posted 2 years ago # -
So basically, the chances are you're all talking bollox.
S'what internet's for innit !!
talking sense = boring, spouting bulwarks = fun
Posted 2 years ago # -
talking sense = boring, spouting bulwarks = fun
Oh yes indeed. Hence my smiley.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I bought another brand headset (hope?) once and it came in about 6 seperate bits. I subsequently lost two of the (probably) important bits so never used it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I bought another brand headset (hope?) once and it came in about 6 seperate bits. I subsequently lost two of the (probably) important bits so never used it.
But that's not the fault of the headset, is it?
I can think of 7 parts in a King headset:
2 bearing cups
Crown race
Thin white washer
Top cover for top race
Top cap
Bolt
Posted 2 years ago # -
I can think of 7 parts in a King headset:
8 if you include the smug grin
Posted 2 years ago # -
Thin white washer
Wheres that?!
Posted 2 years ago # -
8 if you include the smug grin
Natch!
Hora, thin white plastic washer fits between the upper bearing cover and your stem/spacers.
Here -
http://chrisking.com/files/pdfs/NoThreadSet.pdfAlthough it's not in the diagram, if you look under 'Final assembly and ajustment' it refers to a 'scuff washer'. That's it!
Posted 2 years ago # -
FSA for the WIN
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think the problem is people think their MTB is some sort of highly tuned, precision engineered machine and that a fancy bearing holder pressed into the head tube will make “All the Difference” the fact of the matter is that given their use MTBs are closer to a piece of agricultural equipment than a bloody F1 car…
I have yet to have a problems with any FSA headset I think the price tag of CK Headsets means people tend to Install and maintain them with a touch more care and attention than something that costs 20-25% as much, which might go some way towards explaining their supposedly bullet proof reliability, but the fact of the matter is that functionally a ~£100 CK headset does nothing a ~£25 FSA doesn’t…
Treat an FSA like you would a CK component (install carefully, maintain properly and regularly) and it’ll probably last just as long…
Hubs? Very loud, sure they engage faster but a Hope at half the price is hardly a crap component, it works almost as well, I’m pretty sure the Bulb on the back of My DH bike is over a decade old and has had a couple of not too gentle previous owners, there is something to be said for being able to source standard, reasonably priced spares rather than having to get your LBS to order an overpriced “Custom” bearing in…
BB? Again I’m very impressed with my Hope at half the price of CK, very serviceable, a definite improvement on the stock Shimano HT2 efforts, I’m sure CK jobbies are as good as hope, but again given the same levels of maintenance and care (and Abuse) I can’t see how they would last significantly longer…
All of this is simply my opinion of course, If you can see the value in CK parts and afford them then great it does nobody any harm, plus there is the shinyness factor to consider…
But to answer the OP is it worth it? Nah I don’t reckon so…
Posted 2 years ago # -
but the fact of the matter is that functionally a ~£100 CK headset does nothing a ~£25 FSA doesn’t…
Correct. It just lasts longer.
But to answer the OP is it worth it? Nah I don’t reckon so…
And I do. Because a £25 FSA lasts one year, and a King lasts me at least 6 (My oldest so far) Making the King worth £150. And for my own bikes I've never bought a new one, only used ones at about £45. So that's saved me £105 on one headset alone.
And another thing, exactly how many used FSA headsets come up for sale, compared to Kings? Err, none, maybe?
That alone speaks volumes!
I should point out that I love running bikes on the cheap. I'm currently running a drivetrain (Chain, cassette, rear mech, 2 chainrings and rear hub) that cost me the princely sum of £45, made up from mostly lightly used components I got silly cheap. Why? Because it will last just as long as if I'd bought it all new for £250. That's VFM to me. And a headset that saves me £105? That's VFM too. Making it 'worth it'.
It's very difficult to argue with maths like that you know.....
Posted 2 years ago # -
Do people really trash 'non-King' headsets in a year
I've used all kinds of 'cheap' h/s and all have lasted at least a couple of years, then got a good price on an 'old style' Hope and that's lasted 3 bikes/5 years and still no sign of problems.
As cookeaa says, just buy it if you like it/can afford it, no need to try and justify it as 'value for money'
Posted 2 years ago # -
Like I said Buy an FSA and treat it like it was a CK you'd spunked ~£100 on and it'll last far longer, The reason you don't see 2nd hand FSA's very often is that it's pointless trying to sell something that cost relativly little to buy new, leave it in the frame when you flog it...
As I said buy it if you can afford it and see the VFM... Each to their own, I just reckon there are better VFM Equivalent components about.
Posted 2 years ago # -
By repute the CK tandem special hub is the strongest hub out there. a very rare and expensive beast but apart from a rohloff the only hub not to fail under mtb tandeming
I can't comment on the CK tandem hub but comparing it to the Rohloff of which the only truly questionable aspect is flange failure albeit rare isn't hardly sounds like praise. I do not believe remember ever seeing a failed Shimano tandem hub although edco tandem hubs were renowned for problems.
I have used CK ISO and ISO 20mm hubs in 823's when the 823 was fresh out and thought the hubs were pants, the rear refused to stay tight (yes I had the exorbitantly priced tool the price of which was justified by saying "it's anodised aluminium" I didn't fuel the fire and ask if they had an anodised steel one) the front hub was ok but also seemed to need frequent adjustment.
As for the headsets, overhyped nonsense, I had one that was significantly undersized when compared to FSA and Hope offering so creaked, I also had one on a hardtail that wore a worrying groove in my alloy steerer.
I would have Hope hubs and accept that every now and again the cartridge bearings need replacing or have high end Shimano ones not current XT for the adjustableness. As for headsets FSA seem great and cheap, I had one of the first hope ones a few years ago and was very impressed at the abuse and mistreatment it took.
As regards BB I have no experience but if I was some sort of bearing whore I would look at BETD reconditioned Shimano cups.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Do people really trash 'non-King' headsets in a year
Oh yeah. Last FSA I had did well, 14-16 months IIRC. The OE one on my Pitch lasted about 15 rides. I've fitted a cheapie I was given, but that's getting stiff already.
It's wierd. Some things I smash up pretty quickly (Headsets, SQ taper BBs, back wheels mainly) Other stuff people have terrible problems with last me forever (EG - Chains, forks, tyres) and I do look after my kit very well too, as anyone I've sold to will tell you. Odd really. If a £25 headset lasted me 3 years, I'd still be using them.....
Posted 2 years ago # -
rob1984p you do know that for a while after new you have to retighten them dont you?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Cane Creek S3 lasts years, costs £30 and is a 'better' design. I fit them to a wide variety of well maintained and badly maintained bikes and I've not seen one properly fail. If you do knacker the bearings they cost £15.
So, no King not worth it in my opinion. Regardless of the o-ring issue...
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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