It’s been said in recent years that it’s impossible to win a grand tour clean.

Did Cadel Evans just do exactly that?

Wouldn’t be fair to pose a question without throwing in an unsubstantiated opinion so here goes. I reckon he was clean and that the likes of Ben Swift and Geraint Thomas should count themselves pretty lucky to be entering the sport now rather than 10 years ago.

Yes, I beleive Cadel Evans is a real person.

I think he looks like a cartoon character if that helps?

probably clean

he’s not french. so probably doped up to his comedy chin.

reckon he did. No way he was on testosterone….I mean listen to that voice. If he was on anything though it was a can of whoopass ! He is one hard gurning ba5tard !!! Air guitar, that’ll be his second career I reckon !!

probably

c’mon, no fence sitting.

Yes or No. clean or doped?

I mean listen to that voice

Perhaps he found a performance enhancing property to helium.

clean.

probaby, maybe. impossible to be sure really. What was noticeable was that others seemed to drop below his level rather than him getting better…

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/2011-tour-de-france-the-cleanest-in-recent-years

Unfortunately I don’t think anyone who rides the Tour is clean.

edited without reading replies probably clean

LHS – Member
Unfortunately I don’t think anyone who rides the Tour is clean.

Disagree. There are some clean riders. Whether the very top ones are is arguable but there are definitely some.

Define “Clean”.

Is someone who takes an as yet undiscovered by WADA performance enhancing “supplement” clean?

Unfortunately I don’t think anyone who rides the Tour is clean.

interesting. Is it the tour in particular, road cyclists, pro sportspeople in general or just the continual cycle of amazing performances followed by disappointing revelations that make you think that?

I would hope so. seeing as how few of the recent top ten finishers have not been found to be dopes its only a hope.

Seems to just be endemic within the sport nowadays, and people only stay “clean” by knowing how to work the system.

A bit harsh saying ALL riders, but I think the majority.

i guess SbZ has it right on the ‘meaning’ of clean

and muppetW has captured my mood “continual disappointing revelations”

Cram has just come out to say that bans for recreational drugs should be reviewed, i would go further and insist all tour riders drink and smoke everyday at lunch – proper tour that.

Clean.

Whilst I think that Voecklers efforts got my ‘man of the tour’ vote , Evans ride was pretty steadfast throughout, he was just always there or thereabouts and i dont think it was from doping up.

i know this may sound like a totally stupid question – but how exactly does ‘doping’ make you faster/quicker?? is it just a steroid type drug that gives you more muscle, or is it something totally different that allows you not to feel pain in your legs or something???

it definitely suggests cheating previous years – going from contador winning the last 3 (i think) to suddenly struggling? got to be something in that (other than injurys i guess)….

i mean these guys are super super fit, what sort of drug can make them even fitter? how is it possible?

and a cheat is a cheat – if you are found with a banned substance then you are a cheat in my mind – regardless of stories about it being in beef etc

I would hope so.

We’re not doing hope here in this thread. We are doing black & white, yes or no. binary answers (this last one is not a call for clever IT related punnery).

Cheers LHS.

Is someone who takes an as yet undiscovered by WADA performance enhancing “supplement” clean?

The likelyhood of that is pretty minimal. Performance enhancing drugs cannot be discovered by some guy in a shed. Tends to require significant resources, a decent lab or 7, and some good research personelle. Way outside the budget and scope of most pro tour teams. Most of the agents are known to science, if you can’t test direct, you can detect masking agents.

Plus there are only so many biological ‘parameters’ you can improve – which are tested.

The tricky one is blood autotransfusion. Harder to spot. You kinda need plod to find a fridge/car boot full of blood bags there really. It def is not systematic anymore.

Doping in training, or out of season, is possible. Risky, but possible, provided the half lives of the compounds you are using are known with some degree of confidence, plus of course, you know when you’re likely to be tested next. Plus you’re open to refinements in testing – a la Contador.

Cadel – clean as an autoclaved kazoo.

i would go further and insist all tour riders drink and smoke everyday at lunch – proper tour that.

Nostalgia. Riding with two wine bottles on the bars, jumpers for jerseys, goggles for oakleys, spare tubs wrapped around the chest. The good ol’ days.

I think he’s clean.

He doesn’t look like the kind of guy who has been doing drugs with the cool kids

one of only a few podiumists to never have been tainted (along with the schleck sisters who also display a lack of testosterone).

As boardman said Evans has been consistent in terms of physical performance, but bad luck (crashes/injuries) had an impact on his placings. Given how much this tour was geared to Mandy Schleck (lots of mountains, very little TT) I reckon Evans could do it again (aren’t prologues typically ~70km, rather than the ~40km TT he still thrashed Mandy in?).

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/06/news/the-explainer-that-questionable-tour-de-france-podium_176880

Clean as a whistle. Probably. Maybe, on balance he might be. Hard as nails Aussie battler for a certainty.

Believing in pro-cyclists being on the level is a fool’s errand – Cadel has a stirling reputation but against the backdrop of endemic doping no one should be shocked if he tested positive tomorrow.

anotherdeadhero – Member

“Is someone who takes an as yet undiscovered by WADA performance enhancing “supplement” clean?”

The likelyhood of that is pretty minimal

Pretty likely I would say – testers have always been one step behind the dopers – that the lesson from the balco affair – they were doping with untraceable stuff and only when someone shopped them and sent a syringe full of the stuff to the authorities was it found out.

Clean I reckon – it’s his mental strength that usually carries him thrrough a tour and, as pointed out above, he’s had a lot of bad luck in most of his previous TdF’s, sso it’s not like he’s just come out of nowhere to win it.

Clean.

Would it be better TV if the doped riders all wore special armbands?

but how exactly does ‘doping’ make you faster/quicker

Generally they allow you to train harder and more often so you gain more muscle/get fitter. Its not a magic bullet though, you still have to put the working, more in fact. Some allow you to lose weight faster. Other forms, like blood doping replenish the oxygen in your blood so make you feel fresh again.

Contadors performance drop this year can be put down to him winning the Giro first – something he never normally does, as well as his injuries and crashes early in the tour.

Pretty likely I would say – testers have always been one step behind the dopers

Yeah OK, I’m probably being overly optimistic. I’d suggest ‘WADA has always been one step behind the dopers’ is better. Getting compounds with potential performance enhancing effects onto the WADA watch list is apprently tricky and time consuming.

Most honest people working in sports physiology etc don’t sit around all day testing drugs for performance gains.

OK so far we have a pretty certain no, a lot of probably-maybe’s and a couple of clean as a whistles. Given the general air of suspicion that normally follows a grand tour winner I think that is pretty good.

Cadel has a stirling reputation but against the backdrop of endemic doping no one should be shocked if he tested positive tomorrow.

Can you imagine if he did though, can’t imagine Australians being very forgiving.

But hold on, Bertie never tested positive for owt for his two Tour wins previous to last year, did he?

So, as ‘clean’ as Cuddle was this year then.

So yes, it is possible to win a Grand Tour ‘clean’; Bertie has proven this, hazzunt he?

This isn’t a thread about what you can prove it’s about what you believe. I was trying to gauge peoples perception of Evans.

But seeing as you have brought up Contador my perception is that he is far less likely to be clean than Evans.

[edit]
Haven’t we done Contador quite a bit on here already though, no point going over old ground. We all believe what we believe and no one on an internet forum is likely to significantly alter that view. So probably best wait ’till November and let the system take it’s slow progress towards a resolution.

whatnobeer – Member

but how exactly does ‘doping’ make you faster/quicker

Generally they allow you to train harder and more often so you gain more muscle/get fitter. Its not a magic bullet though, you still have to put the working, more in fact. Some allow you to lose weight faster. Other forms, like blood doping replenish the oxygen in your blood so make you feel fresh again.

Contadors performance drop this year can be put down to him winning the Giro first – something he never normally does, as well as his injuries and crashes early in the tour.

cheers that answers most my questions! the oxygen one is a good one – can see how that would definitely help….as for the legs and muscles, i can see how it would help to a degree – but these guys are super fit as it is, really are at the pinnacle of physical fitness a being can be ….

interesting to see that its quite common (being a non-roady i never really pay attention until this tour)….

does that mean people like wiggins and cavendish etc etc dope as well??

could see it being more beneficial especially to cav – with him needing the power more so for the sprints at the end….

if everyone dopes can it be classed as cheating? why not allow so much per rider 😆 you know, to make it fair and that 😆

I think the way the Tour went this year most of the riders were clean. It was so close and there was no insane sudden powerful breakaways at insane speeds (I don’t include Andy Schlecks breakaway in that term).

Evans is a good winner, I still have my doubts about Contador, I’m willing to believe he rode this Tour clean though.

is hincapie varicose-doping?

these are small veins which have swollen/extended, so they are not normally so full of blood – the rest of his body has to maintain its blood levels, so does it increase blood production to fill these extra veins? is it giving him an advantage? (this is almost a serious question)

Elfin, difference between AC and cuddles is that AC has had alegations following him for years. Mixed up in Puerto, rode in two dirty teams, then got caught. Contrast Evans, nowt, not even a whisper.

It is possible I suppose. I was taken in by Landis, the sod 😡

does that mean people like wiggins and cavendish etc etc dope as well??

This isn’t my personal view but I think that more people would be dubious of Wiggins than Cavendish particularly outside of the British Isles. his rise from time trail specialist to GC contender was viewed with some suspicion. Cavendish I would put alongside Evans in the very, very unlikely category.

if everyone dopes can it be classed as cheating? why not allow so much per rider

If you allow a threshold, people would still cheat by going above that line so it’s just as well to say that performance enhancers are banned.

one of only a few podiumists to never have been tainted (along with the schleck sisters who also display a lack of testosterone).

Didn’t Schleck, F. hand over a large wad of cash for a ‘training plan’ to an unkown source a couple of years ago (which may have turned out to be Mr Ferrari)?

Who cares, the fella is meant to be a complete c0ckend isn’t he?