Still deliberating over a new bike, spending a while reading reviews etc and trying to hone down the choices based on this, hopefully ending with a demo of the shortlist.
Two in the running, Whyte T130s and the Cannondale Carbon Habit SE.
The respective weights, as far as I can glean, are 31.59lbs (mbuk) and 27lbs (stw forum member).
That is a fairly sizeable lump but I wondered what effect this would have real world, if any, or is geometry and components what the main feel comes from.
I’d expect climbing on the heavier to be harder going but level and downhill, is momentum a good thing?

Yes
No
Pick one.Be a cock about it.

My Jekyll weighs a bit over 28lbs ready to go.
With the mud on it at the moment plus a Hope R8 light and battery there is probably another 5 pounds on there.
Slower uphill, faster down!
I’d rather not have extra weight but there are a lot more important things than weight. Colour, babe magnetism and so on…

All things being equal a light bike will be faster, but more important than weight is how it pedals, and what tyres you have on. Heavy sticky tyres and a wallowy suspension will make climbing feel much more of a pain than a few extra pounds

If a bike isn’t for XC purposes then I’d be focusing on lots of other stuff first and foremost, with weight pretty far down the list of priorities.

I think for us keen recreational cyclists/weekend warriors bike weight is often massively overstated and ultimately, within the realms of being sensible, is completely and utterly irrelevant. 4.5lb is not a lot. even as a percentage of the bike weight it is about 14%, but in terms of all up weight (which is all that matters – when climbing it doesn’t matter what weight is on the bike or on the person) you’re only talking about 2% of all up weight if you’re around 80kg. If you can notice a performance difference between any aspect of your bike that is only 2% different then you must be earning your living from riding your bike.

I just don’t believe it when people say they can tell the difference. I think there is a lot of placebo effect going on. I test rode two bikes back to back, one was a few lb’s lighter than the other on the scales, I couldn’t really tell when lifting the bikes off the ground. Mentally I would have sworn the lighter bike climbed better, but according to the stop watch on a 20min climb there was a handful of seconds in the time….well within any reasonable scatter between different rides on the same bike, so I can’t really attribute the on-paper slightly quicker climb time on the lighter bike to the fact it was lighter. Could have been tyre pressure, suspension geometry, a bit of fatigue, taking every so slightly tighter lines on one of the runs compared the other. There are thousands of small differences between the two runs that would have contributed to the difference in time and weight difference is only one of those thousands of parameters.

You’re just as well deciding between the bikes on the basis of cost or which you prefer the look of as you are based upon a difference in a few lbs of weight.

Also the fact the weight difference straddles the mentally significant 30lb barrier makes a difference. Why not compare their weight in terms of 12.3kg vs 14,3kg?

Id be interested to know what was faster round a typical xc trail, a full enduro bike or a dedicated xc machine, if you swapped the tyres round. Ie full on grippy 2.4 mm trail tyres on the xc bike,and some super fast rolling lightweight rubber on the big bike. Would make a good test for the mag to run!

Weight weighs on my mind too, I just can’t help wincing slightly when seeing over 32lb in a bikes spec, especially when it’s a 140mm trail bike and not a full on enduro weapon. AND I’ll need an XL frame size so that’s an extra few hundred grams on top…

It doesn’t help when your BIL (who you”ll be riding with) is looking at buying a lightweight XC hardtail which weights 9.7kg (under 22lbs)… 😯 and thinking ‘how the hell will I keep up!!??’ He’s used to lightweight carbon road bikes and carbon cyclocross bikes, so weight is even more important to him.

Any FS bike that’s sub 30lbs or can get to under 30 with some small upgrades would be the choice for me as a large proportion of my riding is flat/uphill/slight downhill, less of the gnarly downhill so a bombproof monster truck of a bike is less appealing.

As others have said there are many factors that influence how quick a bike is or feels. My own experience is that tyres, wheels and suspension dynamics have a massive effect on how quick I can ride a section. But I also found putting my bike on a diet made it feel much more alive, particularly shedding weight from the wheels/tyres.

Lighter is a bonus, but don’t get hung up on it. Your BIL might be riding an XC whippet and fly uphill, but what about going down and in the twistier bits?

I’d put up with an extra couple of kg for a bike that’s more fun on the fun bits…

Depends on how many gates you’ll be lifting it over

I’ve come to the conclusion of spend money on what really counts – ie that better fork (eg Pike over Sektor), decent tyres, quality brake pads that won’t fade or fail, keeping forks etc serviced etc etc.

No point in having an XX1 super lightweight, super expensive cassette if you are not enjoying the really fun bits of the trail as you have rubbish tyres or suspension that’s not working as it should.

A lighter frame can be an advantage when your riding/budget demands heavy tires and/or durable components to be hung off said frame.

Give me the same bike with a light (fit for purpose) and heavy (cheaper) build and the lighter one will probably feel better.
If your comparing 2 different bikes a lot more comes into it. Though what I tend to do is look at what’s on the bike and see what will get replaced as spares – drivetrain spare’s are cheaper and easier than a wheel set when it wears out. Bars/Stem etc. can help.

Though if it has the white label Maxxis OEM rubber budget a couple of hundred g’s for getting the ones with real side walls

cookeaa – Member
Lighter is a bonus, but don’t get hung up on it. Your BIL might be riding an XC whippet and fly uphill, but what about going down and in the twistier bits?

I’d put up with an extra couple of kg for a bike that’s more fun on the fun bits…

Oh yeah I expect I’ll be left for dust on the climbs and might claw back some ground on the downhills, I’m looking at a 27-28lb HT so not that much heavier. I do draw the line at a 33lb FS though…

1st of all the stw forum scales of BS are in play fo sho!

If its this version, then theres not so much in it
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAmut58hLuo[/video]

the whyte has sti29 rims which are heavier & tougher than the frequencys on the habit, thatll be noticeable

but as someone whos newest bike weighs >34lbs id say youll be fine either way!

I’d have thought that two bikes with a weight difference of around 2kgs would designed for two different kinds of riding, non? Especially if they’re at the same kind of price point?

No point in having an XX1 super lightweight, super expensive cassette if you are not enjoying the really fun bits of the trail as you have rubbish tyres or suspension that’s not working as it should.

Yes, but he’s not talking about excessive weight weenieing, he’s talking about two bikes with a pretty decent weight difference, with the lighter one still pretty solid.

So much depends on what you are going to do with it. If you are an oaf and you are thumping your clumsy way down big trails, then the extra strength is important. If you are just doing general trail riding out in the hills then the lower weight is probably more important. For me, light weight makes general bike handling much better on trails that go up and along, and I like a climb.

I have a 31lb bike, and it feels very heavy indeed even compared to my current other bikes which are 26 and 28lbs.

I currently have 3 bikes. A heavy one, a medium one and a really light one. Before i present my evidence i will point out that i’ve never weighed a bike but can tell, after 47 years experience of lifting various things that they DO NOT weigh the same. One is heavier than the other two and one is lighter than the other two.

The heaviest is the best at mountain biking. The medium one was the best – until the heaviest one pipped it to the top spot. Pipped probably is the wrong word as it’s better at everything – except when using the Top Trump category “Weight”. Unless you’re playing reverse rules where heavier is better. But who the hell does that these days?

The lightest is the worst. By far. It’s an On One 456 (20″) and is probably the lightest bike one here. It rides like crap though as it has no forks or wheels or pedals or chain. And only one brake. But boy is it light!

Hope that helps 😀

My commuter (Croix de Fer) and HT (Cotic Solaris) both weigh roughly the same, around 12Kg. Yet the CdF feels much heavier. I think it’s that I look at it, think “road bike” because of the dropped bars and then get a shock when I pick it up. When I pick the Solaris up I’m thinking “mountain bike” and feel surprised that it feels so light.

A Kg or so either way on the bike isn’t really going to make much difference. A week’s steady dieting will have a bigger effect.

Yes, but he’s not talking about excessive weight weenieing, he’s talking about two bikes with a pretty decent weight difference, with the lighter one still pretty solid.

4lbs?

The only way you’d be able to tell a 4 lb weight difference while riding is if it was all pretty much in one place. Or at least. All at the top of the bike, or all in the tyres/rims. I’d is just distributed weight. You’d have to be picking it up to feel the difference.

If a bike isn’t for XC purposes then I’d be focusing on lots of other stuff first and foremost, with weight pretty far down the list of priorities.

Even for XC I’d probably only be looking at weight in about 5th or 6th place.

I just don’t believe it when people say they can tell the difference

I can tell the difference. What effect on performance the difference actually has is another matter.

I like light bikes because they just feel better to me. In performance terms the difference is negligible but I am riding my bike for enjoyment and a lighter bike is more enjoyable.

I like light bikes because they just feel better to me. In performance terms the difference is negligible but I am riding my bike for enjoyment and a lighter bike is more enjoyable.

This for me as well.

the T130 carbon aint 14.2kg, the Whyte T130 SX 2017 is and that will be aluminium

although the posh one is advertised at 15KG, they must have weighed it in the box

https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/144213/products/whyte-t130-c-works-27-5-mountain-bike-2018-granite-grey.aspx

I’m another who likes light bikes. sub 25 lb hardtail with big soft tyres. yes it can be skittish descending – its a very racy frame but I appreciate it not being heavy when climbing and its fun to throw around

Stick 4lbs in your Camelbak and go for a ride on your current bike. You may notice it, but it probably wont change the ride.

Really depends on you and your riding.

If all other things are equal, lighter will be better, but in real life suspension, tyres, geometry etc. all play a big part.

You could of course just eat less and lose 4lbs yourself. That is cheap and easy.

The feel of a “lighter” bike is quite a lot about geometry, materials and what it’s built up with (suspension/wheels).
Not simply about the number on a scale.

FWIW my ~19lb HT was a lot more planted and better at descending than my 30lb training bike. Even when I put the race bike wheels and forks on it……..

Depends.

I find it weird given what we expect from 140-150mm full suss bikes these days in comparison to 80mm-100mm fireroad only XC modified road bikes of 20 years ago, but still somehow expect them to be “better” the closer they weigh to those older bikes?
Modern trail bikes are more or less as capable of the same things that was reserved only for DH bikes just a few years ago, and some of those bikes were 5-10lbs heavier again than the bikes we’re riding now.

short answer: It probably doesn’t matter as much as we all think it does.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment above that a light bike is nice but you will get a lot more benefit from losing a bit of weight and riding more/getting fitter so that you will forget any worries about which model bike is fractionally lighter than another one.

Stick 4lbs in your Camelbak and go for a ride on your current bike. You may notice it, but it probably wont change the ride.

But this is not at all the same as 4lbs on the bike. Think about how your body and the bike move when you are nipping through twisty singletrack or attacking some technical climb.

Of course if you are only trundling about then it probably doesn’t matter.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment above that a light bike is nice but you will get a lot more benefit from losing a bit of weight

This is a ridiculous point to make. The two things are exclusive. No-one EVER is sitting there thinking ‘Hmm, should I get fit and lean to save 4lbs, or buy a lighter bike and eat pies?’

And as above – making yourself lighter does not make your bike handle better.

80mm-100mm fireroad only XC modified road bikes of 20 years ago

For goodness’ sake! 🙄

I had a ti frame that cracked, replaced with a steel frame. Exactly the same geometry and components, the only difference was a couple pounds of weight and the steel frame was noticably stiffer.
At first I could feel the extra weight when lifting in the van but the steel frame rode much better. The lack of flex and more direct feel far outweighed the tiny difference in weight.

Since then weight has been low on my list of overall priorities. I do like lighter wheels, within reason like a Stan’s arch, as I’m pretty light and I do think it helps on a 29er.

Not when you are pedalling unless its a real boat anchor.
You notice every gram when you sling it on your back and hike up a mountain.

Not when you are pedalling unless its a real boat anchor.

32lbs is boat anchor territory to me!

And for those who can’t feel the weight there must be a point where you could in which case it does matter.

For example, you may not care if the bike is 27lbs or 32lbs, but what about 60lbs ?

I went from a carbon Transtion Patrol with Mavic Crossmax XL wheelset/tyres and other fancy carbon bits to an Orange Stage5 29er with no carbon on it at all and DT swiss wheelset (heavier than the Mavic wheelset) and big Ethirteen tyres.

I was convinced i would be slower on the “heavier” bike.

Guess what? – i was wrong.

I think geometry plays an important part as does the fitness/weight of the rider – i lost about a stone in the run up to Christmas and felt like i could blast up hills!

There’s a good article about bike weight on the Airdrop bikes website blog. Check it out!

I’m saying that weight is not all about speed.

MTBing isn’t even about speed, is it?

Even though I am a weight weenie, I’m not sure that absolute weight is that important, although I really hate the feeling of heavy wheels. I would have an irrational psychological issue with a 32lb bike – my 140mm 29er is just less than 27lbs and I like it like that.

I build my bikes for performance and durability in the bits of my riding that I enjoy that’s generally technical lumpy riding, irrespective of gradient.

Durability directly impacts on the not insignificant costs of running 2 decent mtbs and I’ll accept a bit of weight to mitigate against constant replacement of bent and worn out parts, especially as I weight 14st and can ride at little bit, I’ve learned over the last 17 years that my equipment does get worked harder than lighter folk that ride the same trails with me.

So, my bikes end up at about 30lbs, plus or minus a bit. Even my hardtails end up at around this weight.

Recently, my MTB path has led me to replace an aging worn out FS and a hardtail that wasn’t quite right. I’ve pushed the FS into more aggro trail territory, resulting in a bike that weighs 33lbs, and the new hardtail weighs 30.5lbs. I do look to mitigate weight where possible, but I don’t get silly about it.

The hardtail feels just like all the others before it, but I do notice the FS weight a bit on day rides. It’s a compromise though, because the FS is intended to manage the lairy end of things in a way that the previous 31lb FS could too, but wore it prematurely.

Trade offs innit.

My T130 S felt a lot more responsive with a tire change.
Its a tad slower on the climbs than my light XC bike, but boy does it make up for it in terms of confidence getting cross country and on the downhills.

jeez, im not even sure my 29er ‘xc’ hardtail is <32lbs!

agree that heavy wheels are a big factor, my old process 153 was just under 14kg/ 31lbs once id stuck carbon wheels on it and that felt light to me!

my new 29er process was 34.5lb/15.6kg,
new cassette, and swapping in my old bars, brakes, saddle knocks 1lb off
but id really like to get some lighter wheels on there. but thats pricey.

whats bothering me more than weight is that even with a luftkappe the Yari isnt as well damped as my old pike, for £150 i reckon the novyparts damper upgrade will be a better bet!

um. Yes. But no. 4lbs.

You’d probably need to actually break a bike to make it ride like one twice as heavy.

4lbs is within the range where tuning, geometry, equipment etc etc will make more difference.

FFS I’ve probably had 4lbs difference between one year and the next years road race bike and it’s made no noticeable difference at all to results.