Is alcohol 'bad'? « Singletrack Forum

Chat Forum

[closed]

Is alcohol 'bad'?

78 posts & 37 voices | Started 2 years ago by RudeBoy | Latest reply from Bimbler

Tags:

GCSEstandard debates

Pages: « Previous 123 Next »

RudeBoy - Blocked

Dunno, never tried cannabis so maybe I don't have the experience to comment

No, you obviously don't. Not that it stopped you...

By 'keel over', I merely meant 'fall asleep'. You can't exactly OD on weed. And ime, you reach a level of stonedness, which you can't really go beyond, because you'll probbly just stop smoking, or fall asleep/keel over.

As for smoking and driving; my mate does not in any way drive, but regardless, cannabis does not in any way have the effect of impairing judgement/reaction time etc, that alcohol does. I've got stoned at CYB, then blasted down the tracks faster and more smoother than when 'sober'. Probbly 'cos I'm more physically relaxed. But my mind has been sufficiently sharp enough to avoid accident.

My point was, that as a parent, my mate feels in sufficient control while stoned, to be able to deal with any issues with his kids. Which woon't be the case, were he to be inebriated through alcohol.

Posted 2 years ago #
juan - Member

cannabis does not in any way have the effect of impairing judgement/reaction time

You are having a laugh right...

Posted 2 years ago #
RudeBoy - Blocked

No, not anywhere near the levels alcohol will, Juan.

As before, Trust in RudeBoy.

I have much experience in these matters.

Posted 2 years ago #
Olly - Member

So Olly; you're claiming that it's certain types of alcohol, that cause the problems? Even particular brands?

I have a feeling that 'chavs' may be mentioned at some stage...

No, carling doesnt have any specific traits that make people dckheads,
but the type of person who is happy to drink pint after pint of watered down knatts piss, purely under the pretense of "having a good night by getting paralytically twatted" (to quote a housemate) would be grouped into that paticular classification of person

anyone who claims to enjoy that stuff in any quantity is lying IMO.
its nothingy, so its easy to drink, so you can consume more in a shorter amount of time,
and once upon a time it was cheap.

Bitter and Ale has more of a taste, is heavier, and is drunk by most people to be enjoyed in itself, not to drink for the alcoholic content?

"cant judge a book by its cover"?
i whole heartedly disagree,

im not trying to discourage it! knock yourself out, if thats how people want to get thier kicks, then thats hunky dorey with me.

Posted 2 years ago #
juan - Member

ok so 99 % of my mates drink when we go on ride they got hammered at the top. The one that got hammered the most goes down the faster. Therefore if I follow your example, being drunk does not have the effect of impairing judgement/reaction time as they go down very fast and do not fall.

Weed and alcohol are both bad, the both **** up the chemistry of your brain/liver, impair your reaction time space awardness and gave you the false feeling of safety. I have seen too many people high on weed falling off because they were too stoned to walk.

Posted 2 years ago #
Olly - Member

the one that got hammered the most can go quicker because his reactions are slower?

hes more fluid and floppy, and has more flow over the trail than someone who is more inhibited by being sober.

in the same way, in a drunk driver crash, the drunk driver stands a MUCH better chance than the non drunk driver, and a drunk person falling over is highly unlikey to hurt themselves as they "ragdoll" and go with the fall rather than working against it.

Posted 2 years ago #
coffeeking - Member

Certainly with cannabis, he won't be too inebriated to deal with any little crisis that may crop up. Quite responsible, I think.

MORE responsible than alcohol, maybe but responsible would be getting help due to his reliance on substances.

Being stoned on cannabis does not leave you able to deal with crises, from the few people I've known who used it more than a weekend social "one off" they were unable to make rational decisions while using, unable to appreciate the urgency of some situations "theres a bus coming"..."yeah, who cares, he'll stop".... Combining that with bringing up 3 kids - sounds to me like he needs help, and maybe his kids would have a more engaged and reactive father. But then I dont know him or his kids, I only know the effects ive seen with my own two eyes. They were not pretty, in any case!

Posted 2 years ago #
RudeBoy - Blocked

Jeeze, the bloke likes to relax with a spliff or two, once his kids have gone to bed. Hardly irresponsible parenting...

I love the way people who have **** all idea of using cannabis feel qualified to comment.

Posted 2 years ago #
coffeeking - Member

You dont have to drink-drive to know that doing so is wrong and you dont have to fall apart and lose the ability to cope with real life due to drug use to know that some drugs are not good for you, you can watch other people do both and draw the same conclusions. Sure, some people do cope, but it's not a clever idea is it. Doesnt it make far more sense to try to work out WHY he has a problem with it (as he/you admit) and try to fix it? As I said, dont know his kids or him, he might be fine but what you say suggests otherwise and then tries to defend him as normal. Sitting down each evening when the kids have gone to bed and getting wasted would be bad - why not with any other drug that makes you less able to deal with possible problems your family may have. It's personal choice, of course, but I don't have to agree with it, or consider someone who does that a responsible parent.

Posted 2 years ago #
aracer - Member

My point was, that as a parent, my mate feels in sufficient control while stoned, to be able to deal with any issues with his kids. Which woon't be the case, were he to be inebriated through alcohol.

Actually I'm sure an awful lot of people who drink excessively also feel in sufficient control to be able to deal with any issues with their kids, in much the same way as they feel perfectly up to driving, or blasting down tracks on a bike better and smoother than when they're sober.

Jeeze, the bloke likes to relax with a spliff or two, once his kids have gone to bed. Hardly irresponsible parenting

Yet a drink or two when kids are in bed would be horribly wrong?

Posted 2 years ago #
coffeeking - Member

Used to go to do a sport of mine fairly regularly with a mate who smoked maybe 3-4 a day, give or take (depending on his stress levels at home) - we used to drive to the location and shared lifts. I hated days when he drove - his reaction times are shot, he drifts in lanes, he makes poor decisions when faced with a need to react. I started driving every time and just grabbing a few quid for fuel. Yet he comes across as a perfectly sane, mild mannered guy with good driving skills when forced to be off the drugs for other reasons. He has a kid now, I only hope he doesn't drive them anywhere under the influence.

There's also the big difference in product strength from the stuff smoked in the 60s and 70s, isnt it reported to be several times stronger these days?

Posted 2 years ago #
grumm - Member

Because I used to drink in my local, The Bear Hotel, with them. Suggesting that all Muslims won't/don't drink is just untrue and TBH is conforming to a stereotype far more likely to lead to exclusion than your original suggestion.
As has been pointed out though, this isn't really the theme of the thread, so maybe it's time to move on.

What utter nonsense - saying that by and large Muslims don't drink or go to pubs is hardly stereotyping, what with it being a central tenet of their faith and all that. I have NEVER seen a Muslim in a pub in Lancaster despite a sizeable community here.

Posted 2 years ago #
RudeBoy - Blocked

Right, seeing as how some people are ignorant of the facts...

No, actually, I can't be bothered. I'll just report me mate to Social Services, and be done with it. and get the both of us checked in to rehab.

Posted 2 years ago #
noteeth - Member

Looked after three patients today at death's door due to sustained drinking.

On the other hand, tonight, I will enjoy a post-ride beer.

And so it goes.

Posted 2 years ago #
trailmonkey - Member

What utter nonsense - saying that by and large Muslims don't drink or go to pubs is hardly stereotyping, what with it being a central tenet of their faith and all that.

Yes it is. Not all Muslims are devout. Stereotyping suggests that if you're born Muslim then you have have to be some kind of koran weilding zealot. Lots of Muslims drink.

I have NEVER seen a Muslim in a pub in Lancaster despite a sizeable community here.

Try the Bear Hotel in Birmingham then. Everyday's a schoolday.

Posted 2 years ago #
porterclough - Member

Otherwise normally sensible people will drink too much and turn into nasty, violent people.

No, only nasty violent people behave like nasty violent people when drunk. It's just that when sober they have learned to act like normal people.

Posted 2 years ago #
aracer - Member

Right, seeing as how some people are ignorant of the facts...

Never seem to stop you, RB

Though we're just going on what you've told us - have you been inaccurate? Or have you just realised that your position is unsustainable?

Posted 2 years ago #
RudeBoy - Blocked

I always back meself up with facts, aracer; which you'd know, if you ever bothered to read owt I post. And i'f I'm wrong( unlikely, I know), I admit it.

You're just making a mountain out of a molehill, for the sake of argument, and looking foolish. Go and have a spliff, and chill out!

Posted 2 years ago #
aracer - Member

Well I didn't have to store it away for long...

RudeBoy - Member

TBH, there's not a great deal of sense in my statement anyway, so I'm surprised anyone has taken any notice of it, really.

Posted 2 years ago #
RudeBoy - Blocked

I'll send you a DVD of me sleeping, as you obviously need some excitement in your life...

Posted 2 years ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

How can it be argued that weed doesnt slow your reactions down? It slows down nerve trasmission, thus making you feel uninhibited, relaxed, sleepy etc etc etc depending on the dose. Ever noticed stoned people speek slowly?

FWIW, I'm 3 weeks into my alcohol free experiment, haveing a lot less headaches, and generaly feelibg better, also happier, like that feeling you get after excercise but all the time.

Alcohol and weed also supress a lot of hormones, hence they make you fat, and wont allow muscle to build up/repair. In 3 weeks my 'core' has gone from a bit of a flabby mess to nearly an 8 pack with no additional excercise or special diet!

Posted 2 years ago #
BigDummy - Member

Rudeboy pwned, I think.

Posted 2 years ago #
Keva - Member

spoon, I've been drinking and smoking weed for twenty five years and I've always had stomach muscles and never been overweight.

Kev

Posted 2 years ago #
RudeBoy - Blocked

Rudeboy pwned, I think.

Don't be stupid. I'm unpwnable.

Now pay attention: Weed may 'slow' you down, but nowhere near to the extent that it will seriously impair your ability to carry out a task, in the way that alcohol will.

Got it? Lots of Alcohol will make you fall over, and be incapable of doing anything too demanding, like walking. Smoking even a fair bit of dope will still leave you capable of most tasks.

Right. Have we cleared that up now?

Anyone with any real experience of using Cannabis care to offer their thoughts? i'm not inertested in what your mother's brother's uncle's daughter's next door neighbour's budgie's imaginary friend's experience is...

Posted 2 years ago #
trailmonkey - Member

Anyone with any real experience of using Cannabis care to offer their thoughts

Ok,as an ex user - dope will affect your ability to drive safely. Any tokers who disagree with that are in complete denial. But lets face it, most tokers are usually in denial about the negative effects of cannabis.

Posted 2 years ago #
crikey - Member

In a study by the Transport Research Laboratory, people who drove a car at 66 miles per hour had a stopping distance of around 270ft, but after smoking a joint this increased on average by 15% to 310ft. In a slalom test, those who had just smoked a joint knocked over 30% more cones.

Some experts claim that smoking a cannabis joint has roughly a similar level of impairment on driving ability as drinking four pints of beer. Also, reports show that in the majority of fatal RTAs where cannabis has been detected in a driver's body, alcohol has also been detected. Alcohol alone or in combination with cannabis increases impairment, accident rate and accident responsibility (the same can be applied to other drugs, too).

The study was published online by the British Medical Journal the day after the Home Office published proposals suggesting that people caught in possession of up to 500 cannabis joints were likely to escape drug dealing charges.

Researchers at the French National Institute for Transport and Safety Research studied fatal crashes involving 10,478 drivers who were tested for drugs and alcohol between October 2001 and September 2003.

They found that 681, or seven per cent, of the drivers tested positive for cannabis and 2,096, or 21.4 per cent, had alcohol in their blood. A total of 285 drivers tested positive for both substances. The risk of being responsible for a fatal crash increased as the concentration of delta-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in cannabis, in the blood increased.

Those with up to one nanogram per millilitre of THC in their blood increased the chance of fatality by 89 per cent, while those with five or more ng/ml of THC increased the risk of death by 206 per cent. Samples showed that the prevalence of cannabis in France's driving population was 2.9 per cent, roughly the same as for illegal levels of alcohol.

Rude Boy, you don't have to be stupid all the time, take a day off.

...and yes, I have experience of cannabis, and that's why I know it's not big or clever....

Posted 2 years ago #
Bianchi-Boy - Member

As a drug/alcohol worker, the one fact I can convey to you all is "STW'ers spout an awful lot of crap!"

BB

Posted 2 years ago #
shortbaldone - Member

is booze bad

bloody awful, if the pubs shut and you have run out

Posted 2 years ago #
Dr Dolittle - Member

cannabis does not in any way have the effect of impairing judgement/reaction time etc, that alcohol does.

Not the same effect, but an equally dangerous one if behind the wheel.

Yes, I am experienced.

Is booze bad? No.

Are guns bad? No.

Are knives bad? No.

Is "Fire" bad? No.

Is the way we live in serious need of reappraisal? Yes.

Posted 2 years ago #
Shandy - Member

"A spliff" can't be compared to a set amount of booze because spliffs can contain varying amounts of cannabis.

Weed will affect your reaction time but it can also help you tune in to an activity, climbing, biking etc. You would be wanting to take it easy though.

In moderation cannabis isn't necessarily a dangerous drug.

The increase in potency in recent years has been the worst thing that could have happened for attempts to "free the weed". I used to enjoy it as a way to relax and have a laugh, I knocked it on the head because the only stuff I could get was like tranquilisers.

Weed is like drink or any other drug. If you can keep perspective and control your usage it can be enjoyable and add to your quality of life. If you can't it will start to have negative effects.

Posted 2 years ago #
aracer - Member

"STW'ers spout an awful lot of crap!"

Some more than others

Posted 2 years ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

keva, but would you not be even fitter if you didn't?

Posted 2 years ago #
CountZero - Member

I have one personal experience of using dope. I was seeing the most incredible things in pictures in a book on Gaudi the architec that most definately weren't in the actual structures, conversations had gaps of what seemed to be several minutes between sentences, and I can barely remember anything at all of the Johnny Thunders gig I saw six hours later. Thankfully I didn't own a car at the time or I'd have killed myself, I'm sure. I do drink alcohol, but I hate getting drunk. I love the taste of a good pint, not the flavourless fizzy crap morons pour down their necks to get wasted, and I can go for days and not drink alcohol. Maybe if I had more money I'd drink more, but it would be because I love the flavour of a really good ale, and it's the alchohol that gives that flavour. Those low-alchohol drinks are pish, I'd rather drink orange and lemonade. I've found a beer with a fairly low ABV of 3.2 which has a really rich taste which is very drinkable, which I'm enjoying a lot. It's called Bank's, and it's on a par with ABV5.0 beers. Worth tracking down for anyone not wanting to get off their tits but don't want to stick to watery gnat's pish. As far as myself and all my circle of friends are concerned alchohol is something to enjoy for it's flavour, like good food, and it's never been needed to lubricate social occasions in the thirty or so years I've been socialising with these same people. Doesn't mean that there haven't been some occasions when people have been utterly wasted on a sofa with a kitten perched on their head after a birthday bash!

Posted 2 years ago #
RudeBoy - Blocked

Jesus H Christ.

Sorry, but where did I say that smoking dope was not bad at all? Eh? Please...

I think you'll all agree, at least those with some real knowledge of cannabis and it's affects, that yer average cannabis user is probbly going to be more 'in control' than someone who's had 3 or 4 pints or more. This is all I'm trying to say. As for my mate; he accepts his addiction is less than ideal, and is looking at ways to cut down, or hopefully stop all together, as he concedes it has a detrimental affect on his life. He simply feels that he can be more 'in control', if he's stoned, than if he's pissed. He is as aware as anyone, of the long term impact of habitual cannabis use, hence our discussion.

I've ridden me bike home, stoned, on many an occasion. Never had a crash. Ridden at CYB, stoned, and not crashed. I used to ride, skin up, have a spliff, and carry on riding, with no mishaps. I've ridden stone cold sober, and crashed. Nowt conclusive there, then. However, on the few occasions I've foolishly ridden a bike after even just a couple of pints, I've not felt sufficiently in control, and have had a few crashes, which were undoubtedly a result of my intoxicated state.

Cannabis, if abused, is a dangerous drug. I've not denied that. But I, and many others I know, have managed to perform tasks, whilst very stoned, that we would be incapable of, if pissed.

Some experts claim that smoking a cannabis joint has roughly a similar level of impairment on driving ability as drinking four pints of beer.

I would love to see the facts to back up such claims.

So, you can quote 'scientific claims' all you like. I'm not actually disputing them, as long as they can provide 'proof'.

IME, alcohol renders you more fecked, than dope, if abused.

Posted 2 years ago #
genghispod - Member

RudeBoy I have to agree - pot has very different effects to alcohol. People who have not tried either or both are really in no position to argue. The main difference in my experience is that alcohol confuses your thought processes and slows them down, whereas pot makes you chill out and seem over-relaxed while your mind becomes sharper and insight is easier to gain.

There again, if you want a habit for life I would suggest alcohol, as pot seems to stop working the way you enjoy after a few years, and is easier to give up.

Much of the musical, artistic and poetic genius of the last 200 years can be largely attributed to the influence of drugs; despite modern social norms there is something to be said for altered states of consciousness Going to drink 6th can now and go to bed.

Posted 2 years ago #