Interesting BBC summary of the Euro crisis

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Interesting BBC summary of the Euro crisis

17 posts & 12 voices | Started 5 months ago by brooess | Latest reply from JustAnotherLogin

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brooess - Member

The Euro Crisis simply explained

The amount of personal debt in the UK is scary high too:

UK

The BBC story is the most revealing explanation I've seen to date. Interestingly enough it's saying that it's not really the politicians who screwed things entirely, but that good old fashioned greed and sense of entitlement from the people, who didn't understand the long-term impact of their behaviour and expectations...

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that the main lesson of history is that we fail to learn the lessons of history, and that boom and bust is inevitable...

In the meantime, riding bikes in the woods remains fun

Posted 5 months ago #
CaptJon - Member

infographics ftw

Posted 5 months ago #
joao3v16 - Member

it's not really the politicians who screwed things entirely, but that good old fashioned greed and sense of entitlement from the people, who didn't understand the long-term impact of their behaviour and expectations...

But the vast majority fail to acknowledge this - in these days of zero accountability, everything is always someone elses fault

Posted 5 months ago #
andy_hamgreen - Member

interesting link - thanks

Posted 5 months ago #
mrblobby - Member

Boom and bust... inevitable and driven by human nature?

Posted 5 months ago #
clubber - Member

This was the bit I found interesting

...bad news for southern Europe
But debts are only part of the problem in Italy and Spain. During the boom years, wages rose and rose in the south (and in France). But German unions agreed to hold their wages steady. So Italian and Spanish workers now face a huge competitive price disadvantage. Indeed, this loss of competitiveness is the main reason why southern Europeans have been finding it so much harder to export than Germany.

Particularly the bit about German unions holding wages steady - so very different from the them and us situation we so often see in the UK where management and unions/workers just seem to take the selfish view and push whatever's right for themselves irrespective of the actual situation or the best long term outcome.

I guess it's the outcome of stupid/ignorant people preferring to simply demonise the 'them' rather than try and understand their perspective. Much like what goes on with the big hitters here actually come to think of it.

Posted 5 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

But debts are only part of the problem in Italy and Spain. During the boom years, wages rose and rose in the south (and in France). But German unions agreed to hold their wages steady.

GAWD bles sthe Unions

iirc unions sit on the board in Germany and it is far more a colaboration that that anagomnistic/oppositon politics we seem to prefer here..I say this as a Union rep FWIW - ihvae seen people on both sides treat it like a STW debate wher eone must win and one must loose ..the relaoity is we choud cooperate so both win

Posted 5 months ago #
t_i_m - Member

it's not really the politicians who screwed things entirely, but that good old fashioned greed and sense of entitlement from the people, who didn't understand the long-term impact of their behaviour and expectations

Indeed. but the politicians need someone to blame (bankers*) because if they told the elctorate that they were to blame, no one would vote for them!
*yes, I know bankers did cause chaos, but this was based upon greedy people borrowing too much money to start with.

Posted 5 months ago #
5lab - Member

unions/workers just seem to take the selfish view and push whatever's right for themselves

Posted 5 months ago #
clubber - Member

but this was based upon greedy people borrowing too much money to start with.

True but it's the normalisation of the behaviour that sustains it and that is/was allowed by the 'bankers' being willing to lend out money to people that couldn't really afford it. Many people don't understand finance and so if they see everyone else they know driving a flash car/having a 50" TV/whatever other status symbol and they know they got it on finance, well then, that must be ok mustn't it because everyone's doing it...

Posted 5 months ago #
clubber - Member

I did but you rather selectively edited it...

management and unions/workers just seem to take the selfish view and push whatever's right for themselves

Posted 5 months ago #
mrblobby - Member

Germans do seem far more prepared to consider their own greater good. Watching that Robert Peston program where they explained the German privately owned SME model that takes a long term view and is considers itself part of the community really illustrates that.

Posted 5 months ago #
5lab - Member

I did but you rather selectively edited it...

sorry, was just a tongue in cheek troll (given the rather robust defense of unions that some folk tend to have).

its funny that 50" tvs are seen as a 'status symbol' when they start around £400. a few years ago you were paying that for a 21" tv, but no-one was getting uppity.

Posted 5 months ago #
clubber - Member

You're quite right - it's a 60" 3DTV these days

Posted 5 months ago #
druidh - Member

clubber - Member
True but it's the normalisation of the behaviour that sustains it and that is/was allowed by the 'bankers' being willing to lend out money to people that couldn't really afford it. Many people don't understand finance and so if they see everyone else they know driving a flash car/having a 50" TV/whatever other status symbol and they know they got it on finance, well then, that must be ok mustn't it because everyone's doing it...
It's such a shame that all the pre-hack STW threads have been lost. Otherwise, we could have had a good laugh at all the posts demonising the banks for not lending enough for houses, cars and flash bikes. But you're right - getting into debt to chase some media-led, rose-tinted view of what your life should be has become absolutely "normal".

My pet hate would be all of those TV property programmes - the ones where folk are upgrading their house to keep up with/get one over on the neighbours, or they borrow enough money to buy another house and "develop" it and then let it out to someone who can't affords to buy (because of rising prices fuelled by a buy-to-let bubble).

Posted 5 months ago #
CHB - Member

Very interesting report.

Posted 5 months ago #
JustAnotherLogin - Member

I think the bank fiasco is more a symptom than a cause of the economic woes. Also politicians have to balance popularity with doing the greater good for the economy/society. They should have taken our pocket money away a long time ago but no party would have really reigned back such a boom. Sadly that's ended up with the current mess. Inflation seems the only way out and that's a dangerous one.

Posted 5 months ago #

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