Mate and I have started climbing on a weekly basis at our local wall – nothing amazing but plenty of stuff to get us working ourselves – we are pretty new to it all and don't really have much of an idea on teh gradings – harness/belaying and tying on are fine – technique/ability and understanding the grades aren't that great.

So, if we are climbing something that is graded 6a – what does that actually mean? Does it mean that the only way to make it a 6a (French grading I think – if that makes any difference) is to use only the coloured holds for feet and hands OR only your hands have to use the coloured tags, your feet can use the colours or features i.e. not any other coloured holds OR your hands can use the features (not other coloured holds) AND the coloured holds and your feet can go anywhere other than other coloured holds?

We seem to be doing not too badly at it but we seem to be getting mixed messages about the grading – we aren't entirely consistent with our ability but we are making progress…

Means an evening out the house so I'm happy to stick at it, the technique will improve over time but it would be helpful if I had a better understanding of the grading system(s) and what you have to do to qualify for completion of the grade (this isn't to say if I complete 1 6a climb I can do them all, just means that if that particular climb is a 6a and I do it then I've completed that 6a climb).

I think it will depend on the walls route-setters, but generally hands and feet on relevant coloured holds and features are fair game for anything.

Different walls have different rules, generally 6a on a green or whatever would mean for hands and feet, some walls allow smearing on the flat wall or palming, some dont, it depends on the route setter really

my stairs are hors category at the moment 🙁

Depends from wall to wall, but generally (specific) coloured holds only for hands and (specific) coloured holds and features for feet.

Ditto, usualy its the same colour for hands and feet

Also they usualy only grade the hardest move so 8 might be dead easy, but have an impossible bit at the end. Although usualy they'r more consistent indoors.

Also (again) it depends on the route setter, if its a short girl and your tall bloke it will always seem easy to you, or vice versa if their route setter is 6ft8 with arms like Stretch Armstrong!

As others have said – hands and feet generally with addition messages to says if bridging/smearing/features are allowed or not at that grade.

Also be aware that – generally – if you doing the top-roped routes the grading can be a little all-over-the-shop as the route setters put less effort into these compared to the longer lead routes. So, you find you struggle on a 5b, but clean a 6a easily. Certainly the case as my local wall.

my stairs are hors category at the moment

sorry (I saw your other thread) – but LOL !

get well soon

as said different walls do differnt things but it is usually stated somewhere. For example I climb at the Castle (finsbury park). Each grade is given in the format
COLOUR FRNECH GRADE ENGLISH GRADE COMMENTS and the comments will say stuff like 'bolt ons only' or ' crack and discs allowed' or 'crack for feet only' In the absence of any comments I'd assuming palming, smearing and probably bridging are in but otherwise only the appropriate coloured bolt-ons for hands and feet – no discs, no features, no screw on smears etc.

thisisnotaspoon, is that hardest move thing french or english grades? I've been told one grades on the hardest move (english?) the other takes some account of both hardest move and overall strenuousness/difficulty. So a 5b english on a slab wall with just the one hard move may be just a 6a french, but a 5b english on an overhanging route with nowhere to rest maybe a 6b or 6c french for example.

If the wall is plain panneling then the rule of thumb would be specific coloured holds for hands and feet with smearing, splats, aretes, large volumes, etc for both unless excluded in the description (usually next to the grade tag). If the wall is one with features moulded into the surface then probably you can only use the features for feet.

To complete a route in best style would be in one push from the floor without weighting the rope and holding the finishing hold with both hands in control.

If in doubt – ask one of the staff!

Which wall is it specifically you are takling about?

jedi, have you got ABO stairs? 🙂

gnarly.

edit: you, not the stairs. gotcha.

is that hardest move thing french or english grades?

French grades give the overall difficulty of the route. So a 7a route could have twenty moves of moderate difficulty in a row, or be absolute piss for 90% of its length with the other 10% being really tricky.

English technical grades (the numbers) tell you the difficulty of the hardest move on the route. However, they don't tell you how many moves at that grade there are – you need to add the adjectival grade (ie. VS, HVS, E3 etc) to give an indication of that. However, as the adjectival grade also takes other factors found on outdoor climbs into account, they aren't really applicable, or often used, indoors. For that reason, English grades aren't really suitable for use indoors, even though some walls like the Castle insist on attempting to use them.

Basically – you're on the right track with So a 5b english on a slab wall with just the one hard move may be just a 6a french, but a 5b english on an overhanging route with nowhere to rest maybe a 6b or 6c french for example.

As for what you use, smearing an palming are always in. It would be ridiculous (and make a climb feel unnatural and odd) to suggest otherwise. For hands, as everyone else says, it's only coloured/tagged holds unless you're told otherwise. Feet generally use features and coloured holds – again unless told otherwise.

nedrapier. ???? 🙂

jedi:

International French Adjectival System (IFAS)

The French alpine grades give an overall difficulty grade to a route, taking into consideration the length, difficulty, exposure and commitment-level (i.e., how hard it may be to retreat). These are, in increasing order:[13]

* F:facile (easy)
* PD: peu difficile (not very difficult)
* AD: assez difficile (fairly difficult)
* D: difficile (difficult)
* TD: très difficile (very difficult)
* ED1/2/3/4: extrêmement difficile (extremely difficult)
* ABO: Abominablement difficile (Abominable) (Extremely difficult as well as being dangerous, e.g. jedi's stairs)

heh heh heh fact!

I like "abominable". It'd be quite fun to see some proper extreme sports bumped up to "Abominable Sports", just to distinguish them from rollerblading and suchlike.

Eh scuse me – "English" grades? No such thing – "British" grades if you please. 🙄

So a 7a route could have twenty moves of moderate difficulty in a row, or be absolute piss for 90% of its length with the other 10% being really tricky.

is that willy waving or a quote from somewhere else?

Shackleton – it's at the local sports centre – The Peak in Stirling – they have about 22 graded climbs going to about 12.5metres in height – not the tallest but has enough scope to make some climbs impossible for us just now (most of them!) and some a complete doddle – seem to range from 4 to 7 – one 7 and most are 5 and 6 grade. Considering there was nothing else within a 20 mile range it's pretty good, but doesn't come close to the likes of Ratho – but I have issues with Ratho due to a serious lack of ability…I can only manage 1 or 2 of those climbs – I need to start small and build up!

Thanks for the advice folks…

is that willy waving or a quote from somewhere else?

WTF? It's called 'giving an example'…

(And seeing as there are 9b routes around, I'd be waving a pretty small willy if I was…)

Brown – thanks for your post…just re-read and it made the most sense, so as long as my hands and feet use the appropriate coloured holds, I can also smear and use features on the walls as long as they aren't other coloured holds.

Thanks.

I can also smear and use features on the walls as long as they aren't other coloured holds.

Only with your feet now!

I reckon the best set stuff is at the Climbing Works up here in Sheffield – aretes, volumes – everything's in for hands and feet. Much more interesting way of climbing.

It seems a bit silly to disallow palming and smearing really as one's just for balance and if you weren't allowed to smear you'd just have to drag your feet up the wall in places!

Have fun – it's a great 'sport'. Every bit as good as riding.

Oops sorry, yes I apologise, British grades not English.

Brown, thanks. And I think I know what you mean re. the adjectival grade taking other stuff into account outdoors – exposure, protection, difficulty to place protection, that kind of thing.

The Castle uses everything, boulder areas are V (sport?) graded. it may give the best description but does confuse when you are new to the sport.

Forget about all these grading systems and use my system

1) ones you can do
2) ones your close to doing
3) ones you cant do
4) ones you'll never be able to do

Pretty much what people are saying but as Brown said smearing etc is for feet only in my eyes unless something obvious that the climbs been built around (a shelf above a small overhang for example).
Just use it as a guide as things vary massivly from place to place and setter to setter. (I know some places with 7a's i'd walk were as other places will spank me down).

Try to find the flow of a climb is the most important thing, lead with your feet and try to think a few moves ahead as you climb. A setter will have a sequence of moves in mind when they set a route and its generally finding that sequence that will let you know what you should be using or not. You'll know when you get something right as it'll just feel…. well right.

PS Stonemonkey your overcomplicating things…..
Surely it's just Can & Can't?

gs:

My bro has taught his little girls (3 and 5) out of that attitude already!

"I can't do it!" has been replaced with "I can't do it yet!

Well french route are graded like in england (sorry no experience of british climbing here) 5 5+ 6a 6b 6c (with some +) and so.

As for grading inside every wall as it's rules. But I found indoor route/grading to be quite technical.

Hope it helps

Just too confuse you there are two grading systems in France: bloc (boulder)and falaise (crag). The bloc grades are very similar to British technical grades and some places are notoriously hard graded, Fontainebeau for example. I've usually found about a grade difference between French falaise and British technical on short routes. Spanish grades are supposed to the same as French but again expect some surprises.

PS Stonemonkey your overcomplicating things…..
Surely it's just Can & Can't?

probably! But it is a sliding scale so no matter how well you climb it will always work.

As my namesake mr Johnny Dawes would say,

" its all about the movement, we all have it within us to climb brilliantly but we need to declumsify ourselves open your mind and the body will follow."

or words to that affect as he is completely mad!

http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/comptable.html

All you need.

Apart from tendons like steel, fingers made from titanium, hips made from Plasticine and a dislike of pies and beer.

Oh and dot know if anyone has mention HVs, e1 etc are severity grades ie exposure and 5a,5b etc are technical grades ie how difficult the hardest move is.

IMO grades should be used as a rough guide only. fascination of climbing up the grades ruins climbing.

This reminds me of a cocky litlle **** who i met out at the plantation who had only climbed at indoor walls and informed me that he was going to do all the B8's at plantation as thats what he had climbed indoors and wasnt interested in the B4-6's I was doing as they were so easy. Guess what happended…

Don't get into grades. There is no consistency across grading, rock types and grading systems. By it's very nature it's subjective.

You're better off identifying moves you can't do and working on them. Just because someone says it is hard doesn't mean it will be for you. Conversely, if the grade says it's easy, don't expect it to be.

Research John Gill's attitude to grades by reading Pat Ament's excellent book, John Gill: Master of Rock.

sq225917 how pertinent is your link? As apparently I would have been able to climb something like a 8a in France (6c over here).
That sounds very unlikely…

Take the "safe" end of the UK grade grade for comparisons. If you're strong enough to get up a really bold E6 6c which means something like a gritsone arête with almost no holds and a high barn door potential then you'd probably manage a French 8a or an English E5 7a which is safe and doesn't require you to have as much in hand.

juan dont mix up Uk indoor grades with true outdoor grades, some setters and somewhat optimistic in how hard stuff is indoors.

our local wall – nothing amazing

You're a hard man to please Richard 🙂 If you're climbing 6a then Ratho should still have quite a few options to offer(says he with all the authority of having climbed at both places for the first time in the last few days!). Just got back to trying it after at least 10 years and rather stunned at how bad I now am ( and how knackering it is)so you can (willy) 🙄 wave when you see me on embarrassingly low grades.

Take it you've been to Callander as well? Nice little wall there.

Steve – yes I'm hard to please but saying that, I've still got plenty of stuff to complete at The Peak so I'm not knocking it…just comparing it to the size of Hadrians Wall (god rest it's soul!) and Ratho – it's not very big and as it has virtually no real overhangs it isn't as varied.

Saying that, it is very good compared to what we used to have so I'm more than happy to the 10 minutes in the car to get there on a weekly basis.

Callander does have an overhang but each time I've been it's been very busy…which is a good and bad thing…

I was last at Ratho in 06…and I was mince…so I'm not sure how I'd fare now but I think I have improved slightly since then (but not much!)

not sure if this has been said, I scanned the above posts and agree with the general comments that every wall is different, if only because there are different route setters, Some use French sports grading and others use british technical grades. Even tho they use the same sort of numerics and alphabetic prefix, they are different.

chart of the grade system
climbing grades

So, at leeds climbing wall (french sports graded, I think), if you can climb 6a, then at Newton Aycliffe climbing wall (british tech graded, I think), you could probably do 5a.

At Huddersfield sports centre, currently all the walls have permanent moulded features under the bolt-on holds, just to add another dimension for the route setters and climbers (they use french sports grades, I think). However, some of the 6a routes at Huddersfield I find harder than 6a at Leeds (or did a few years ago, either, or all of the route setters might have changed now at both walls).

Just go and climb, don't get too hung up on the grades. That's easier said than done when you're trying to measure your progress.

10 minutes in the car to get there

Tsk Tsk, you could bike there in 20 and jog in 30. Be a good warm up too.