In Praise of....... Hope Pro II Hubs

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In Praise of....... Hope Pro II Hubs

62 posts & 28 voices | Started 3 months ago by dannyh | Latest reply from shedfull

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dannyh - Member

I have accidentally discovered the beautiful simplicity of the innards of a Hope Pro II rear hub this evening.

To explain, I snatched the bike out of the shed to pop some different tyres on for the anticipated snow at the weekend, but spotted a broken spoke. Damn it. And it always has to be the drive side doesn't it?

Cassette lockring nearly defeated me, only a dousing in WD40 with the disc rotor in a freezer bag and some brute force shifted it. Great, just got to whip the cassette off and we're in business.

Disaster strikes - the cassette has chewed into the splines of the freehub body and won't budge. A lot of levering and cursing later the end cap pops off and so does the freehub - cassette still attached. Now I can push on the back of the cassette directly I can get it off.

Remember, this all started as a broken spoke!

Now I am out of my depth. Or so I think. I panic and start looking for the Merlin and Hope email adresses. Just to salve my conscience a bit, I think "I'll clean all the bits up for them so at least I don't look a total prat".

On starting to clean it up, the magic is revealed. Simple and easily separated components and a great big ratchet in the hub. A bit like comparing an AK47 to a SA80 - simplicity and ease of service wins through in the end.

Obviously there are problems here - I need a new freehub body and am a bit annoyed at how soft the metal was. One of the leaf spring behind one of the four pawls has also sheared off - god knows how long it's been running on three contacts.

However, I am going to slap it back together when I've replaced the spoke - it will be no more damaged after one more ride on Saturday, I can then get it repaired at my leisure and not miss out on any riding.

Loads of bike component irritate me with their unnecessary complications or deliberate non-compatibility. Why use hex bolts when an allen bolt is just as good? What difference does ten splines on a BB axle make versus eight (other than tieing me to a specific manufacturer)?

More things like Hope Hubs please!

P.S. If this makes me sad, I'm happy to be sad - there was a load of old crap on the telly tonight anyway.

Posted 3 months ago #
nosedive - Member

i agree. if you get a stainless steel freehub body they are pretty much perfect

Posted 3 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

Horses for courses, happy for you to be happy with your choice.

Posted 3 months ago #
Northwind - Member

So it has a freehub that's been chewed to bits, then fell off, and also part of the freewheel mechanism was broken. But it'll be easy to fix the faults, apart from the one that'll be expensive to fix. And that's a result?

Posted 3 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

no need to replace the freehub body generally - just dress it with a file.

Posted 3 months ago #
dannyh - Member

Hi Northwind,

It's a result in a way, yes. I've had Shimano hubs work loose during a ride in the Peaks (they were fine only a couple of weeks before). A bit of Peak grit got in and did its thing. On taking the hub apart I found shards of swarf and some very odd-shaped bearings. The hub was a write-off.

At least I can bodge this for the weekend. Get a new freehub next week and sort it properly at my leisure.

Not an ideal world, but better than time off the bike.

Posted 3 months ago #
michaelmcc - Member

I wasn't too happy with my hope pro II's. I prefer more fit and forget, less faf.
They have performed well in most races I've done, but I've tried a mated chris kings a few times and much preferred them. Granted they cost more but they seem worth it.

Posted 3 months ago #
molgrips - Member

TJ is right - I've hammered the cassette off my hubs a dozen times and each time it goes back on and does another few thousand miles.

I must say though that I've never had a single issue with them. Zero faff. Not even changed bearings.

Posted 3 months ago #
brakes - Member

+1

although the springs can be a little fragile

Posted 3 months ago #
Northwind - Member

Aye, mine (and my DT Swisses) all look like a big metal dog's gnawed on them. Had to replace one though as it was so worn, the cassette was twisting around, but it came to me used. Built another one back up with JB Weld as it was becoming really annoying.

DT 240s are, IMO, better in almost every way than Pro 2s, no contest. Only criticisms are the need for a special tool for the full (infrequent) service, and the much higher price. So til I can afford more of those I'll be using some Pro 2s as well

Posted 3 months ago #
hexhamstu - Member

Best hubs I've used. Cup and cones are a **** ball ache, constantly taking them apart.

Posted 3 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

No need to file shimano freehubs.

There is a need to maintain them properly tho, HS I suspect you may be lacking there, no offence, mine are not like that.

Posted 3 months ago #
dannyh - Member

The main problem with Shimano hubs is that the cones can work loose DURING a ride. I know that the real art is tightening them 'back' onto the locknuts without upsetting the adjustment, but this is a ball-ache, and if they do work loose, it can happen anywhere.

As I said, the fact that this happened to me in the Dark Peak meant that the world's best grinding paste got to work and that, as they say, was that. Hubs bollocksed and a complete rebuild of the wheel the only option.

Posted 3 months ago #
stucol - Member

I did have a slight bit of sticking the first time i removed the cassette from my Pro II. A wee clean up with a file and the freehub was fine.

I then replaced the steel cassette with a PG 990 which really it should have had from the start. The alloy freehub is supposed to be used with a alloy spidered cassette.

Posted 3 months ago #
Northwind - Member

stucol - Member

The alloy freehub is supposed to be used with a alloy spidered cassette.

Which does nowt to stop the smaller cogs digging in.

Posted 3 months ago #
Superficial - Member

Yeah but there's nowhere near the same torque going through those ones (unless you're using silly gears like small to small).

Posted 3 months ago #
Northwind - Member

Sure, but it's still more than enough to tear up the hub.

Actually, my most mangled freehub had been used with a standard cassette on it, but the wear was pretty uniform, not sure how that works really. Maybe it's the loading and unloading rather than the pressure, or something.

Posted 3 months ago #
ben - Member

Love their hubs, it's the spokes I keep having an issue with:

Posted 3 months ago #
simons_nicolai-uk - Member

I've never seen spokes break there - always at an end. What are you doing to them?

Posted 3 months ago #
trail_rat - Member

ben hope will rebuild

i had exactly the same issue - and being a mechanic for 10 years i have NEVER seen a spoke break there (Including some superlight stuff and even ultra light road wheels on crossbikes.....
)- let alone the 5 or 6 i had go at 10 under the ben in one ride !
get in touch with where you got them from- you will end up chasing those all the way round the wheel till you have replaced them all !

why i like hope - no bull shit , a problem you have is a problem they have and have always strived to resolve my issue - even with my at the time 8 year old big un that sheared disk tabs or when i contacted them about getting a new hub body for my mono that aftr just short of 15 years service sheared the spoke flange they were all up for giving me a new set of pro-3s but i said in the end i had just replaced the wheels with mavic equipes and that after nearly 15 years i was happy with the service they had given me !

my wheels did develop this sapim spoke issue and i dont think its fair to blame hope - its a spoke issue not a build issue imho

so when i needed new brakes i went hope and have been happy

Posted 3 months ago #
Matt24k - Member

I think the OP's point is that the Pro 2 is a lot easier to work on than he was expecting. They are very simple and any issues are well documented and easily sorted.
The pawl springs are cheap, small and light. You could carry a set in your wallet if you were really concerned. You take your pick with the freehub material, light aluminium or heavier steel. If you go for the aluminium match it with a cassette that has as much aluminium spider as possible. An XT 11-34 has 6 gears on the spider but an XT 11-32 only has 5 on the spider. The choice is yours and as others have said you just dress the splines with a file when required. It's exactly the same with a clutch basket on the vast majority of motorcycles.

Posted 3 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

dannyh - Member
The main problem with Shimano hubs is that the cones can work loose DURING a ride.

Sorry, I've seen that happen once, it's extremely rare or user error.

Posted 3 months ago #
doug_basqueMTB.com - Member

I changed to Hope ProII's after having issues with my Chris King. I found that the king was far from fit and forget. The little lockring kept working loose and it's a pain to get the pre-load right. I cleaned mine regularly and used the proper grease but you can't do a full service without the right tools and the freehub started sticking. I gave up and went ProII and haven't looked at it in around 2 years.

I've got XT hubs too on another bike and find them a pain. Every now and then you need to tighten the cones and it seems to get worse once they're older. Also the freehub is a sealed unit so you can't get in to clean / service like you can with the hope and if it fails on the trail you're stuck.

The chewing into the cassette body is a pain. I had exactly the same with my Chris King and my Hope. It's not due to the cassette, I've only used high end cassettes. Never try to lever the cassette off though because you end up with the freehub comming off as above. I did a wee vid last time I took mine off, it's really easy this way.

Removing a stuck cassette from a freehub

Posted 3 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

cynic-al I do love the way anything goes wrong with shimano hubs its always user error Maybe if they didn't require such frequent or fiddly maintenance? Or perhpas its just a poor system

Once a cup- and cone starts to wear ie has become loose once it will never be 100% again as the hardened surfaces have failed

Posted 3 months ago #
FOG - Member

Shimano hubs certainly aren't perfect but they are relatively cheap and cheap to fix. balls are cheaper than cartridge bearings every time.
My XT freehub finally needs attention after 6years on three different bikes ridden at least 2x a week in the same Dark Peak grinding paste.
In that time the bearings have been removed and greased once but are still fine though I will replace them just in case.

Posted 3 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

TandemJeremy - Member
cynic-al I do love the way anything goes wrong with shimano hubs its always user error Maybe if they didn't require such frequent or fiddly maintenance? Or perhpas its just a poor system

Once a cup- and cone starts to wear ie has become loose once it will never be 100% again as the hardened surfaces have failed

I accept they're not perfect, but if a hub comes loose mid-ride after a service, sorry, that IS user error. If a hub gets pitted, that IS insufficient servicing.

I've always said they need servicing, the frequency of which depends on the use. A shimano hub is unlikely to fit with a cartridge bearing user.

"Fiddly maintenance"? Many, like me, find it fine - how could it be less fiddly? It's the same as any other C+C hub?

By "failed" what do you mean?

All with

Oh and Doug, you can get a tool to flush grease through a freehub body.

Posted 3 months ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

I think the OP's point is that the Pro 2 is a lot easier to work on than he was expecting

Oh yeah, they certainly come to bits and go back together easily, but you should open up a DT Swiss 240 if you want to see real simplicity. The ratchet has literally half the amount of parts that a Pro 2 does - 4

Posted 3 months ago #
doug_basqueMTB.com - Member

I didn't know that Al. I've always just put them in a bag of oil to see if I can get them working again! You've got to admit it's not as easy as the Hopes. If they fail on the trail I've opened them up and sorted them. I even saw someone who'd got his going using bits cut from zipties.

Posted 3 months ago #
ben - Member

I've never seen spokes break there - always at an end. What are you doing to them?

Not doing anything, other than riding on them. Just like Trail Rat I had a load go on the rear wheel which needed to be rebuilt. Hope were really good though and sent me replacements out for the rear.

Now happening to the front wheel too. The problem is I'm in Singapore and can't get spares so reliant on Hope in the UK again. Annoying, I want to ride it!

Posted 3 months ago #
ton - Member

i agree with the OP. hope hubs are fantastic.
i managed to change the bearings in a front hub using a hammer, drift, block of wood, a socket and a forktruck.
hope, being a british company realises that the british cyclist, in general is a bafoon.
so they make all their gear bafoon proof, and home/work servicable.

long live british workmanship.

Posted 3 months ago #
molgrips - Member

Yeah but there's nowhere near the same torque going through those ones

Maybe half or a third the torque, but it's distributed over a fraction of the area. It's the small ones that give me grief always.

Many, like me, find it fine - how could it be less fiddly? It's the same as any other C+C hub?

Exactly, that's why Hope, being a cartridge bearing system, are simpler and adjustment free and hence less fiddly.

I have only ever had freehub failures on Shimano. Two were many many years ago when I was running low end stuff - the freehubs just stopped hooking up leaving me with a walk home. However on a CRC Marathon at Builth year before last I found myself in the wrong gear so heaved on the pedals hard to get up a slope, and found myself unable to ride. On inspection the freehub had jammed solid - my awesome power had mashed the internals.

When I got it home and replaced it (at high cost!) I discovered that I'd actually ovalised it! And I'm not exactly a big bloke.

Posted 3 months ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

"Fiddly maintenance"? Many, like me, find it fine - how could it be less fiddly? It's the same as any other C+C hub?

I can do a C&C hub service in the same time or slightly less than replacing 5 cartride bearings in a Pro 2. And it's 1/20th of the price too

I'm not anti Hope, but I've worked out that they are not the be all and end all of hubs like most of STW seems to think. They are not as reliable as the older XC hubs, for sure. I would take Deore over Pro 2 for sure. No less faff, 1/5th of the price to buy and 1/20th of the price to service.
That said, I'm currently switching my main MTB to DT Swiss. We shall see how they fare.....

Posted 3 months ago #
oxym0r0n - Member

ProII for me every time - just had mine apart - had to replace 1 leaf spring, re-greased bearings that were in good condition from the last time I had them apart.

£2.75 + some grease for new-feeling hubs. Oh and they look better IMO than big S, are UK made. I would rather replace after something is worn than have to constantly have it apart to service it all the time...

Posted 3 months ago #
molgrips - Member

the be all and end all of hubs like most of STW seems to think

Umm we just think they are robust, light and reasonably priced. Not unreasonable is it?

As for servicing - I have had a number of Hope hubs since 1996 and changed bearings twice. Shimano have caused me more grief, and cost me more despite me having ridden far fewer miles on them - see above.

Posted 3 months ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

Umm we just think they are robust, light and reasonably priced. Not unreasonable is it?

No it's not. I just don't agree, for Pro2s anyway, which I think are a compromised design that sacrifices reliability.
I litereally got shot of mine* and went looking for old XCs which I paid £60 or less for, and haven't had to touch. Given a money no object choice, I'd pick Royce. But they aren't trendy or available in umpteen colours, are they?

*failure list
Snapped hub flange on Mrs PPs lightly used Kona
More than one snapped pawl spring
Only on set of bearings lasting over a year out of 5 hubs, one set of fronts did about 10 rides....
The retaining flange for the adaptor circlip on a front P2 breaking off, so the adaptor falls off every time I take the wheel out

Yeah, Hope send me free bits when I get a failure, the warranty is great, I just get sick and tired of using it.

And look at the OP - he's singing the praises of P2s when the damned thing has broken pawl springs and a stuck on cassette!!!! WTF is all that about????

Posted 3 months ago #