A mate of mine who gained 5 GCSE’s at grade C just graduated with a 2:2 in Computer Science from Leicester University (no, not DMU).

He was stuck in a dead end job at Tesco’s when I got to know him, quite a few people considered him to be a bit simple as well. I’ve always had a rather opinionated attitude about intelligence and learning….I’ve always thought the brain was plastic and has the capacity to be to perform better if used and trained.

So I encouraged him to do a foundation degree at my university, I pushed him when he was there. Then he transferred to Leicester University and **** graduated! With no A-levels and crap GCSE’s.

So all in all, everyone that said he couldn’t do it can go **** themselves!

Congratulation to him.

😀

I’m really happy for him Chewkw, really I am. A good education shouldn’t be just for those who’s flawed schools deemed them to have a high IQ.

I haven’t had chance to see him but I’ve downed a few beers despite having to be in work early. Very very happy, it makes me more optimistic about the world. As long as you have some curiosity, drive and intellectual discipline (you can teach this, you don’t need a high IQ for it) you can understand the world around you better. I tried to instill this in him and I think it worked.

To many people are told what they can and can’t do in life, I’ve always really hated it with a passion. I’ll die happy knowing I did a bit of good on this mad planet, tis a weird feeling changing someones life entirely.

Everyone is intelligent in their own ways but some are just not that good at using them to their advantage that’s all.

High IQ does not guarantee happiness in life nor success, it’s just a means to move forward.

Precisely Chewkw.

I’ve always felt that education needs to teach people how to find their potential, how they learn and how to maximize their own potential etc etc etc instead of just telling them they are crap, average or brilliant.

This is partly because I’ve always had a total and utter disregard for any authority since I was quite young. I’ve never been able to handle anyone telling me anything unless they’ve earned my respect or admiration, I guess I just tried to impart some of that stubbornness on him.

Education is important but most education nowadays seem to place more emphasis on suppressing others (it’s called competition) rather than improving self (harmony). So when a person is perceived to be “less intelligent” that person is out of the competition which means life will be much harder for him/her.

Authority is respected if it leads a person to the right path i.e. teaching you to do the right things, making the right decision etc, but blind obedience to authority means one has agreed to ignorance and thus removing oneself from learning. i.e. if you know it is wrong yet you still do without giving you the chance to try out the alternative thus removing your opportunity to learn.

Authority, when right you follow otherwise smash it to pieces before its head becomes too big that it makes life harder for others.

Good thread

bravo sir.

I’ve always said that people should follow their passion. As you sat above, a bit of curiosity and enthusiasm will bring with it intelligence and success.

I got five Gcse passes first time round ( re took english to make it six), a lot of my friends consider me pretty simple and I’ve got a phd 🙂

My brother has got no GCSEs, no A levels, and a University Degree. He bypassed the admissions system and was interviewed on the strength of a personal recommendation and his sheer talent.

Its easy to be critical of schools (but I went the the same school and left with 11 O’levels / GCSE’s and 4 A levels and went to do a degree in the same subject… and its a school with a knack of getting half a dozen folk into oxbridge each year) but I don’t think everyones interest and receptiveness for learning happens at the same age and not everyone thrives in a school environment either. College/Uni is a very different way of learning and people can excel there regardless of how well the did a school

but I don’t think everyones interest and receptiveness for learning happens at the same age and not everyone thrives in a school environment either. College/Uni is a very different way of learning and people can excel there regardless of how well the did a school

THIS ^^ I’ve always said this! I’m really pleased others are taking note as well! I’d actually like to delve into this topic more. Some great and interesting posts guys, thanks.

What’s he going to do now though?

What university doesn’t prepare you for is what to do after you graduate. I find this a shocking dereliction of duty. It’s fine for people who have their parents’ connections to fall back on in order to find a job, or for vocational studies that lead to a job like medicine, dentistry, nursing etc., but it’s no good for people who’re the first in their families to go to them because what guidance there is for post uni life is laughable.

You get so caught up with graduating and doing enough to get there as a student that you don’t realise that you’re eventually there to get a job. Some are exceptions. Learning is its own reward, but let’s face it. Most of us go to uni to better our career prospects.

Good on your mate for graduating and you for encouraging him to push his academic boundaries, but it’s only the beginning. Hope it works out well for him.

There’s a seat in a contact centre somewhere just waiting for another graduate to fill it …

That’s brilliant! And to all the nay-Sayers – if he’s got this far, then pushing himself the final stretch into a decent job will happen

I managed it. And I’m a ****ing idiot!

Fair play to him. I am a firm advocate of a good education no matter what age/ stage. Someone who is willing to better themselves should always be encouraged and given the opportunity to do so. Hats off for giving him the encouragement too.

I got in to Uni with some pretty average A Level grades, plus 10 O levels, not a single A.

Year one at uni was basically spent bringing everybody up to the same standard according to the options they’d taken within the Physics (in particular), so I learnt nothing new.

Year two, well I was already bored with the course and too busy doing the Tech Services thing for the touring bands we used to get, and also being in a band of my own, to be arsed going to lectures. I failed the exams at the end of year two, not exactly surprising.
I couldn’t string a simple for..next loop together in the computer aspects of the course.

twenty five years later I’m making a more than passing attempt at being a Senior Analyst/Programmer with almost 25 years behind me.
If you were to ask anybody on my degree course back then, what I’d end up doing for a living, IT would have been at the bottom of most peoples’ lists.

So yes, I agree, exams don’t prove you can do it.

congrats to your mate BTW, good luck to him with whatever follows

You get so caught up with graduating and doing enough to get there as a student that you don’t realise that you’re eventually there to get a job.

I think you’ve completely missed the point of university

Bwaarp well done to you too. I have a similar story. I was working in a factory after school and had been there for some time. No qualifications and little in terms of prospects. My friend was studying law and went on to become a barrister. He encouraged me to do a couple of A levels at night school then later to apply as a mature student to read for a Degree. It took a while for him to convince me but he had faith.
Managed to scrape in and 3 years later got a degree in Economics. Did some post grad stuff and am now head of IT in a reasonably large company.

Point being I agree totally with you and given encouragement and support its within the grasp on the majority.

oh and I really love my mate!! 😀

Actually I take it granted now, but Ms Maccruiskeen’s mum didn’t go to university til her 60s. She waited til she’d put her 4 kids through uni before she went herself. Went to Glasgow School of Art and did it properly too, left home and got digs in a shared flat with students a 1/3 of her age, only going back to her husband at weekends and holidays. She’s now in her mid 70’s and a prolific young artist.

What university doesn’t prepare you for is what to do after you graduate. I find this a shocking dereliction of duty.

A university isn’t just there to train people to work, it’s also there for academic research, and to give people sufficient grounding should they wish to move on to a PhD. Even ignoring this, AFAIK all universities have careers services, job fairs, etc.

Besides, the OP’s mate has a degree in computer science, shouldn’t be that hard to get a job programming (depending on where he lives of course).

I’d doubt that. Without a 2:1 it’s pretty much impossible to get your foot in the door of any graduate employer. You’ll have to have some pretty solid experience in the industry. A lot of software development/programming is outsourced these days too. And he still needs to set himself apart from all the other 2:2 grads.

Extended life in academia is a minority choice. Even these people will eventually have to leave uni once the funding for the PhD/Post-doc runs out. I know a few. They’re now struggling in the job market. Overqualified for grad schemes and no real world experience to slot into jobs in industry.

Job fairs are pretty much useless at the redbricks where the people exhibiting are Fortune 500 types who have a cookie cutter model to sift through their grads and put them into a one size fits all program. It would be good if universities had to offer a compulsory year in industry after the 1st/2nd year using some tie in to local businesses. This way you’re exposed to the industry and can make up your mind as to whether you want to be in it before wasting 2 more years of your time and money, and local businesses get a taste of what the available labour market is like.

curiousyellow – Member
What’s he going to do now though?

What university doesn’t prepare you for is what to do after you graduate. I find this a shocking dereliction of duty.

No! No! No!

The university is an institution the purpose of which is to pursue ideas, and to bring on board those that wish to engage in this enterprise (by means of teaching).

Maybe there is a hole somewhere that needs filling in terms of preparing people for the world of work, but it is NOT the job of the university.

What university doesn’t prepare you for is what to do after you graduate. I find this a shocking dereliction of duty.

This is being addressed but it has also sparked a very big debate about the role of universities loosely based around 1) to get you a job / prepare you for the ‘real world’ or 2) gain knowledge and expand your thinking.

The academia only view is one that is too ideological. Maybe instead of asking students to write fairy tales on their UCAS forms they could ask them what they’re expecting from university instead? Then they’d have a good idea of whether they’re a mutually good fit.

A pragmatic approach is required here. Like it or not, universities take a large amount of public and private funding and have a duty of care to their students. Going “oh sorry, we thought you were only here for the shits and giggles of learning how neural network theory works for 60 credits and not to get a job” at the end of 4 years is not good enough.

Then we should reinstate the polytechnics, and stop tyelling everyone to go to university.

Because university is an idea, and needs to be permitted to thrive on its own terms. If we kill it with specific, productive expectations, then we kill our common brain.

no real world experience

What do folks mean when they apply this to people who work at universities?

If that’s the function the Polys served then I am all for that.

I agree that university needs to be a place where learning is valued for learnings’ sake. However, universities are not falling over to disassociate themselves from the idea that a university graduate is the perfect employee are they? Therefore, I suggest they educate their clients/students/whatever they’re called that a 2:1 or even a 1st will not guarantee them a nice cushy job on 28k + benefits in a lovely multinational of their choice upon graduation.

If they’re not willing to do that, then they need to tell their students what they need to do to walk into a job on graduation.

– You need to apply for a grad job in your 2nd/penulatimate year.
– A year in industry is worth more than an extra year to get a Masters or even a PhD when looking for a job.
– Your first year mark doesn’t count towards your final degree classification but is used as a marker by your prospective employer when you apply for a job in your 2nd year.
– You’ve got close to zero chance of a graduate job if you’re a non-EU student. Exceptionally bright people excepted.
– Employers don’t give a crap that you were able to balance a degree with 2 part time jobs, working full time in the holidays and a place in a BUSA 1st Division sports team. They’d rather you stuffed envelopes at Daddy’s firm in The City for 2 weeks in the summer while you did the run to Starbucks for chai lattes.

All of the above are things that are more valuable to an undergraduate looking for a job than modelling something in Matlab for 3 months that’ll never be used again.

Ah the old edumacation ting- schools in this country are about grading and failing– you learn your place in subtle ways at school, only the best at age 16 move on to the next level.

As was posted earlier we all develop at different times,in different ways, yet a straightjacket system that is basically deciding who are fodder for menial work, and those who will have ‘careers’.

The vocational bias is staggering, even in so called ‘universities’– the idea of learning for its own sake seems alien to many places.

I was a failure at skool- but did an access course in my thirties- loved it,thrived on things that at school were beyond, english lit, learning with my peers who all wanted to learn , and had all similar experiences of education was priceless.

Now however, all the courses are modular, the group dynamic doesn’t exist– its all tick box ‘learning’.

University for me was a dispiriting experience on many levels, the learning by rote for many was shocking, the ‘coaching’ to pass modules was the same. It was like a crap job with no craic. The so called work was not stretching– my tutor told me that if i could hang in until doing a PhD, it would get better.FFS– what a pile of shyte, maybe i was doing the wrong degree, maybe it was the wrong ‘environment’.

There are many people who will succeed in that arena, but i found it stifling and very boring to be truthful.

Hmm, I seemed to have stumbled into some sort of educational debate.

Hell, I’ll just punt out what I have to say anyway.

I’m pretty happy right now, get to ride or run in decent hills 7 days a week. The GF is ace, no money worries, I’ve lost a stone in lard, and fitness wise I’m flying, met a lot of ace and remarkable people over the last couple of years. All is good.

Come to think of it, it’s not really on topic with the OP either but hey ho

me too piemonster, i am an optimist, its the only way to be !

i am usually on the happy side of life, but you do have to work at it sometimes !

Bring back poly’s for technical degrees

What university doesn’t prepare you for is what to do after you graduate. I find this a shocking dereliction of duty. It’s fine for people who have their parents’ connections to fall back on in order to find a job, or for vocational studies that lead to a job like medicine, dentistry, nursing etc., but it’s no good for people who’re the first in their families to go to them because what guidance there is for post uni life is laughable.

A good course at a good university should do one thing above all else and that’s teach you how to think: how to think critically, analytically, how to make an argument, absorb another point of view. If you can do that well you’ll be fine.

A good course at a good university should do one thing above all else and that’s teach you how to think: how to think critically, analytically, how to make an argument, absorb another point of view. If you can do that well you’ll be fine.

Same could be said of a good school/vocational course no?

Perhaps university should be for people who already have those skills.