manonsoul - think about how 13.5 million fans get to premier league footy matches every year and all the resources that go into that plus the running of the league?
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I'm a huge F1 fan, but......
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Posted 2 years ago #
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Tribalchief - you're quite right, football's crap too without even looking at the violence and tribalism.
But two lots of environmental irresponsibility don't make a carbon neutral world.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The sport is dead what a waste, did they not know this would happen. I don’t remember anyone complaining about this prior, no wonder the manufacturers are leaving the sport total joke.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Senna's death was the worse thing to happen to it, because the new safety measures stopped any overtaking maneuvers almost overnight. From a selfish point of view, if you take out the risk, you take out the fun.
For me, technological advances, and to a certain extent health and safety, have killed most motor sport.
F1 - enough said!!! Crap.
Rallying - Only a couple of manufacturers interested, no night stages, short rallies (remember when it was the RAC Rally over 5 days and nights). And it's not Rally GB it's rally wales.
Touring Cars - They do their best with weight penalties, but when they started using space frame chasis and a body that looked a bit like the car it was supposed to was the death of it for me.
MotoGP - Even my beloved MotoGP gets it wrong. Traction control and start assistance on a bike is just wrong. It might be safer for the rider but does nothing for us poor suckers watching it.
WSB and BSB - Is probably my favotite, but even they started getting it wrong and messing about with what they could do and still call it a 'production' bike.
Isle of Man TT - nothing comes close for excitement (or danger for that matter).
Probably not the most TV friendly motorsport (long course, time trial format and of course, media luvvies don't like condoning rider deaths / serious injury), but that's irrelevant when you are stood at Bungalow / Creg ny Baa / Ballaugh Bridge, or innumerable other places and watching bikes going past at stoooopid speeds.
Now, how do I post video on here???
Posted 2 years ago # -
I enjoyed it immensly
After 7 laps I went out washed both cars, did some gardening and took the dog for a walk.
Came back in 2 laps before the finish and could pick it up again straight away, nothing had changed
Hadn't banked on getting anything done at all yesterday afternoon
Thankyou Bernie and Hermann Tilke for making my Sundays more productive
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think comparing modern F1 with Scalextric is unfair. You can now get digital kits which allows four cars to race each other, swop between lanes AND overtake.
Posted 2 years ago # -
nope - didn't work....
Posted 2 years ago # -
Could also be dull because of lack of testing and a very long season - no need to take unnecessary risks, just gather data and roll-in and pick up your points. If you take a risk you lose valuable data-gathering time and learn nothing. Add that to engine and gearbox restrictions plus the most competitive field for years and you get a situation where it is more important to not make a mistake than to take a risk.
Notwithstanding the ever increasing difficulty of following another car closely I have not written it off yet - hey, it can only improve!
Posted 2 years ago # -
A clutch pedal and a gear stick would bring back a bit of driver error thats been out of F1 for a long time
Miss a gear and the guy behind is past...you cannot miss a gear in a modern F1 car
Posted 2 years ago # -
I would like it if you had to retire as soon as you were lapped. So some drivers could just fill up on a very light fuel load and attempt to lap the whole field - just like track pursuit cycling.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Driver difficulty is different, for sure, but probably not reduced. Some things are easier (shifting gears) but some things are harder (braking distances shorter, corner Gs much higher etc). The driving standard is now just sky-high and there isn't the big difference that there used to be.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hmmmm, statistics can be made to show anything, most of those 80's overtaking are the turbo 1.5lt cars going bat-shit fast past the NA 3.0lt ones time and again and again and again and again....
what the forumla needs is a bigger differential between straightline speed and corner speed - this means lower/remove aero stuff
super fast on the straight then have to scrub loads of speed into the corner and have to accelerate after the corner - opo for last braking and battles to get out of the corner - better slip streaming and allow for cars to follow/get cloer to each other
Posted 2 years ago # -
Give them all karts. Now that would be exciting and worth a watch!
Posted 2 years ago # -
whatever you do don't start watching the bike racing its really dull & boring, I'm sure the rugby & tennis are great to watch though
Posted 2 years ago # -
What they need to do is take the brakes off them
well sort of
Braking distances are so short, there rarely enough time to out-brake or out-brake someone else
Reduce the the efficiency of the brakes, thus increasing the braking distances into turnsPosted 2 years ago # -
Remember, also that F1 has to be the premier Formula series that the FIA run, so any changes you make to F1 to slow it down or make it less technically complicated such as removing wings or Aero, or changing brake materials, you have to apply to F3000, F2, all the way down....
Thing is, you can pick up copies of Motorsport or Autosport from way back in say, the turbo era, or skirts, or traction control, or even just moving the engine from front to the back, and find people slagging it off, saying it's dull, processional, whatever...
1988 any-one? McLaren lead every lap bar 27 in the WHOLE SERIES, and won 15 out of 16 races, now that really was a dull year....
Posted 2 years ago # -
The last big round of aero alterations, which were combined with a return to slicks, represented a massive chunk of aerodynamic downforce being taken away and an increase in mechanical grip. There is so much money and clever stuff in the sport though that within a few races they had clawed back nearly all of the lost performance.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Give them all the same engine. Finally I must admit I sick and bored of F1. Never thought I'd say that.
Enjoyed Damo's return though
Posted 2 years ago # -
You will never see the same engine in every car on a F1 grid ...what manufacturer would put that sort of money into a sport only to prove they are faster than one of there other engines
The manufacturer will have nothing to gain
Posted 2 years ago # -
Engines aren't far off being equal anyway. And the quickest car of the weekend had the least powerful engine, reputedly. The car that finished up winning has the worst fuel economy too, so they say.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yes it was duller than a very dull thing
take the wings off and give them huge grippy tyres .
and ban all driver aids .Posted 2 years ago # -
Instead of tinkering with the aero design regulations, why not impose a maximum downforce limit? Combine that with some regulation to limit the turbulence your car is allowed to create behind it. That would enable cars to actually overtake in the longer braking areas it would create.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I must be missing something (As well as not watching the race that is).
Let me get this straight.The drivers have to race without stopping for fuel and are restricted to how many tyre changes they can make during a race. YES/NO
So you guys are saying that the drivers are holding back and protecting their fuel and tyres so much that they arent going to have a chance of overtaking or winning.
Is there a rule to say that one of the drivers cant take a chance and see if he can push the boundaries of what his tyres/car can achieve and tell the guy on the end of the radio to go forth and multiply when he tells him to calm down.
Is this something that they have had thrown at them at the last minute? I dont think it is
So why on earth havent all the guys been practising driving their cars with full loads and protecting tyres? Surely there are drivers on the grid who will (In a few races) come to the fore and find they have a distinct talent for protecting tyres and fuel and find they are better than the out and out racer types. I thought Mr Prost based most of his career on the ability to protect his car/tyres/fuel and even though he maybe wasnt as agressive as A Senna, he still managed his fair share of wins.
I would be surprised that M Schumacer isnt sitting already plotting how he can make the most of this situation. The best talent will rise to the top. The fact that it may suit someone that isnt maybe as gun-ho as Hamilton isnt necessarily a bad thing.
I say give it time
Posted 2 years ago # -
"So why on earth havent all the guys been practising driving their cars with full loads and protecting tyres?"
I could be wrong but I thought that testing is very restricted now, so much so that this race was the first time some cars had done more than a few laps with that amount of fuel in
Posted 2 years ago # -
Surely there are drivers on the grid who will (In a few races) come to the fore and find they have a distinct talent for protecting tyres and fuel and find they are better than the out and out racer types.
It's something the current World Champion is supposed to be very good at. If it's not possible to overtake though (something which would be a problem at Borerain whatever car regulations you had), then it doesn't really make any difference. Ditto for the idea of pushing the fuel consumption/tyres.Posted 2 years ago # -
I would be surprised that M Schumacer isnt sitting already plotting how he can make the most of this situation. The best talent will rise to the top...I say give it time
That's what Prost said last week, in a few races the best drivers will have worked out what strategy will get them a win. Whether or not this makes a race of it remains to be seen.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm glad others found it dull as well, wondered why I kept dozing off... That explains it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The top ten have to start the race on the qualifying tyres, so they were very conservative. More risks will be taken now that they know the tyres to be tougher than feared. As I said earlier, lack of testing data (none at all in hot weather) and a long season led to a cautious approach. It will still remain exceptionally difficult to overtake though, due to aero/double diffusor situation.
On the one hand I feel happy that the ban refuelling idiots have been proved wrong, on the other I want some racing!
Posted 2 years ago # -
@glenp - I'm not so sure that the refuelling ban itself is the problem. If we'd had a refuelling ban with no trick diffusers, tyres that were a bit less robust and drivers who weren't being told to slow down because their engines were overheating then maybe there would have been more of a show (but not necessarily with that circuit layout at Bahrain).
Unfortunately the diffusers are here to stay until 2011, Bridgestone don't want the negative PR of millions(?) of viewers seeing their tyres fail week after week and the teams were being ultra cautious because of the untested hot weather conditions and the fact that their Bahrain engine might have to last another 2 races.
If we'd had refuelling how different would it really have been? Alonso might have passed Vettel in the pits even if his car hadn't broken, Button might have passed Schuey in the pits, Webber might have passed Button in the pits - the teams would still have been cautious about overheating and that middle sector would've spread the field out - still not great wheel to wheel racing is it?
FWIW I don't want lots of overtaking - some of the best moments of F1 have been about the fight for a position (Mansell/Senna at Monaco anyone?). Cars must be able to follow each other closely and challenge for position, but an overtaking move between closely matched cars should be a well worked attack that's set up over a few corners, not a simple whizz past because one car's quicker than the other.
Australia might be better, but Malaysia is probably the first chance for 'real' racing - especially if it rains
Posted 2 years ago # -
Braking distances are so short, there rarely enough time to out-brake or out-brake someone else
Reduce the the efficiency of the brakes, thus increasing the braking distances into turnspart of that amazing braking is down to aero as well
Posted 2 years ago # -
thepurist - I go with what you're saying to a degree, but the part that you don't take into account is that the cars are rarely running in an ideal configuration because of the weight of the fuel. With refuelling the car is closer to ideal for more of the time and can be driven harder more of the time. Carrying that extra weight for two thirds of the race is harder on brakes, transmissions and engines. I just feel that the FIA have capitulated to the ill-informed - better racing ensues when the cars are more closely matched, like they were last year.
This discussion usually comes round to the same conclusion - the quality of the racing is more circuit related than anything else. Maybe we are projecting all of the dullness onto the regulation changes when it would have been a dull race anyway.
High hopes for Melbourne, but I do agree that Sepang is usually a good circuit for a bit more action esp if it rains (rain on full tanks will separate the men from the boys - step forward LH, SV, MW, FA and Mr Schumacher!).
Posted 2 years ago # -
(rain on full tanks will separate the men from the boys - step forward LH, SV, MW, FA and Mr Schumacher!).
No mention of JB (who overtook one of the others you mention on the way to his first win in heavy rain)?Posted 2 years ago # -
it was incredibly dull and it was a dull race last year IIRC
the powers are not going to do anything about it for a few more races but I expect Formula
1dullness to prevail .
I will still tune in to watch but have something else to do when the boredom sets in .they have pushed the aero to such a degree that the wings need to come off now allow inseason testing and unfreeze the engines
Posted 2 years ago # -
personally i would like to see the engine regs change to allow a bit more freedom, ie - a 2.4litre limit but relaxing the 'it must be a v8 with 2 valves per cyclinder' freeing the teams to decide which engine type suits them.
to a limited extent i would like to see some ground effects allowed - something along the same lines as the GP2 regs.
increase the size of the front tyre back to last years regs.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Interesting article below which does make sense but goes totally contrary to current accepted wisdom
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/03/getting-rid-of-aero-in-f1-the-counterargument/
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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