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Then I can honestly say, that as a 'don't you worry, I'll get through that' motorist with plenty of experience and a healthy disregard for life and limb, that swapping my Michelin energy saver summer rubber to Perelli winter tyres yesterday made more difference than I thought possible. Snow, ice? What loss of traction? Wet, cold roads? A significant improvement in grip. Downsides, well, they are fairly expensive (but no more than the summer rubber) and the noise is a little louder and the ride a fraction firmer. I'll be rubbering up every winter from now on.
What on earth took me so long!
What on earth took me so long!
The general belief that one knows best in the face of experience of others. 😉
They are a legal requirement in some countries such as Bulgaria...
Amen!
Last Friday, the routine for cars in front of me on one particular corner went: turn in; understeer towards curb; hit bakes; slide into curb; reverse with wheels spinning; go forwards with full lock before switching to full opposite lock to finally make it round; crawl forwards.
Me? Turn corner as normal. Done.
Clobber - Member
They are a legal requirement in some countries such as Bulgaria...
Any Germany. If I had a car there is no way I wouldn't have winter tyres!
here's a silly question - it's not just a simple matter of swapping them over like it is on a bike is it? Do you need to ask the supplier to do this? Is that included in the cost?
Yep, agreed, we have to have them here for insurance, although to be fair, they get there use in Ice and cold temps. Never driven on them before.
We went skiing one weekend and I had to drive up this snow/Ice mountain road that hadn't been cleared.
When I saw it, my jaw dropped, it was late at night, had wife and daughter in the car, thought this isn't going to end well.
I was super surprised, it was like I was driving my old Landrover again with 4x4.
Main difference is braking in the freezing temps.
here's a silly question - it's not just a simple matter of swapping them over like it is on a bike is it? Do you need to ask the supplier to do this? Is that included in the cost?
They will need to be re-balanced when swapping over.
If you take the long view, it may be cheaper to get some cheap second hand steel wheels, and have the tyres fitted to those. Then you can just change them yourself when needed.
here's a silly question - it's not just a simple matter of swapping them over like it is on a bike is it? Do you need to ask the supplier to do this? Is that included in the cost?
Some online retailers ([url= http://www.etyres.co.uk/ ]etyres[/url] offer free tyre fitting at your house, for example) will price in swapping winter tyres onto your current rims. Many folk choose to buy a second set of rims (whatever are cheapest, steel or alloy) and have the winter tyres put on these.
Then swapping wheels over yourself become a possibility (albeit a time consuming one if you just have the jack that came with the car!).
here's a silly question - it's not just a simple matter of swapping them over like it is on a bike is it? Do you need to ask the supplier to do this? Is that included in the cost?
It can be. Some tyre retailers will store your spares for you and swap them over in spring and autumn as part of the package, or for a nominal fee. Or, you could get your winters on a set of cheap steel rims (so your alloys don't get knackered by the salt on the roads) and swap them over yourself.
They are a legal requirement in some countries such as Bulgaria...
And Luxembourg, even for visitors. Since the snow came down, the police have been fining loads of Belgian and French motorists who don't have winter tyres.
If you take the long view, it may be cheaper to get some cheap second hand steel wheels, and have the tyres fitted to those. Then you can just change them yourself when needed.
Most people do that here. Plus the side benefit is that if you have funny sized wheels (performance car or what have you), you can get something a little less funny for winter so it'll end up cheaper to own two sets of wheels.
What on earth took me so long!
for me, the fact they wouldnt have helped in the traffic jam I got stuck in round plymouth yesterday and it'll be 10degs by the weekend...
a couple of days of inconvenience a year isnt enough for me to make them worthwhile.
Buying winter tyres in the middle of snow hell in January versus buying in Aug/Sept and storing = hard lesson in capitalism and market forces
🙂
COI Bought mine last summer for 1/2 of what they are going for today (couldnt resist checking)
That'd be £630 for two weeks a year.
Seeing as I live in the SE, the family car is part time haldex 4wd and the other RWD car won't be used in these conditions I don't think I'll bother, but thanks.
Most folk have a set of winter wheels specifically for use with winter tyres as in some cases (though not all) the winter tyre has a narrower profile than the recommended usual fitment, I keep my low profile/sticky summer tyres and good alloy wheels for use in the summer - these are 15" and 195/50/15 and fit an old set of 14" alloys and winter tyres in 185/65/14. Michelin Exalto PE2 tyres for summer and Nokian WRG2 tyres for winter.
wsooner the government make it compulsory the better imo. its not snow or ice that creates the problems its morons that must make their journey in thier car with unsuitable tires clogging up the roads - and it is the tires as with winter tires even my bosses 535 is a different motor - from being un able to haul its own arse across a flat slushy road to driving like nowts there.
i too wass of the opinion that they were unnecessary till i tried some on a golf - which was at best pathetic in cold weather.
now i have a (reputidly terrible) 4x4 with winters on and its unreal and im driving past defenders and shoguns (on their summer tires) and yesterday bashing through drifts 2 and 3 feet high off the fields on my farm track like it wasnt even there.
wouldnt replace tires on any of my cars with anything but winter tires now - the only thing that stops my van is ground clearance - ie when a foot of snow lifts the front wheels off the ground.
still doesnt mean you can go at normal speeds drive just as carefully as i would on summer tires just know that i can take it easy up hills without worrying that im going to be stuck and sliding into other cars- im looking at you audi drivers that keep tailgating me....
Anything that improves grip on a car is win win IMO.
wsooner the government make it compulsory the better imo
when the scots get independence, they can crack on.
Needed some new front tyres for my CR-V last year and winter tyres were on offer. £90 for the two fitted and balanced. Didn't notice any difference with them over the summer but now it's snowed they are brilliant.
...the forecast is for heavy rain and double-figure temperatures by the weekend 😉If you're thinking of winter car tyres...
Have them on the T4, from last winter have used them all 'summer' 10,000 miles at least and not worn very much at all.
Saying that it's pretty low power and I don't drive like I stole it.
A little noiser and possibly a did 'draggier' but have been great in the wet as well as the snow. 😀
suiatable for all year round use on anything but high motorway milage.
fuel consumption is lower yes but marginal - dont see the cost issue my self. if something has to give itll be summer tires for me. waste of money they are for the 2 weeks a year it gets out of temps that winter tires excel.
The forecast is for heavy rain
so winter tyres with deep tread and additional sipes won't be as effective as summer tyres will they?
Oh no. They'll be better.
As a cost benefit analysis for winter tyres in this country you are much better off just staying at home for a day or two.
Yes they are better but unless you just run them all year or do enough miles to need new tyres every 6 months then the hassle just doesn't seem worth it. You need to
- Store the tyres in the off season (and maybe the wheels)
- Have a second set of rims or pay someone to re-fit the tyres twice a year
- Buy more expensive tyres
- Find time to have them swapped
- Tell your insurance company
And even after all of this you will still be sat in a queue behind some plonker who can't drive.
...the forecast is for heavy rain and double-figure temperatures by the weekend
And?
best thing about this morning was only the main roads were treated - instead of some of the back roads getting treated and some not they just didnt treat any . they announced this on the radio and it kept the summer tire brigade on the main roads - which were gridlock. Got to work early this morning without taking any risks at all , infact barely saw another car.
spent yesterday morning on the same roads pushing cars out the way with their summer tires who couldnt get up hills .... meanwhile others sat in their cars watching - when they got stuck i just drove round them. if your not going to help me im not going to help you what goes around comes around.
on monday morning the road was blocked by an audi with summers on rear and winters on front - touched his brakes and spun the car wedging it between 2 walls.
That'd be £630 for two weeks a year.
Temps are on average less than 7degrees for more than two weeks a year, winter tyres or those marked with the snowflake symbol offer significantly more grip and control when temps drop below 7 degrees vs the usual summer tyres, and they offer greater control and increased ability to deal with standing water. If you use hard compound tyres such as the O-P who mentioned he runs Michelin Energy saver then you will notice a massive difference in grip and sure-footedness on the road, the sooner it is compulsory to fit winter tyres the better.
They are a legal requirement in some countries [s]such as Bulgaria...[/s] [b]that regulalry get propper winters not just a couple of weeks of slushy snow [/b]
I'd consider it as a safety thing as they may be better in an emergency, but despite doing about 40 miles a day on A/B roads at the moment on the snow/ice/water I've only slid twice (both last night in conditions best described as shit).
I'm not sure how you can notice a sudden change in grip levels in a car, it's not like on a bike where you slide on almost every corner. Unless you're driving like a Tard or think your Clarkson how often do you actualy skid?
If you use hard compound tyres such as the O-P who mentioned he runs Michelin Energy saver then you will notice a massive difference in grip and sure-footedness on the road
Tyre technology fail, it's not just the compound that makes them efficent. And as I said above, if you're skidding that often you need driving lessons not new tyres.
That'd be £630 for two weeks a year.
Mine went on over 4 weeks ago. They are staying on until the average temp is about 7. Which will be a while yet.
Why not look at it this way- its one more thing that can keep you from hitting that raised kerb.
Tell your insurance company
No you don't, not for Winter tyres. Snow tyres maybe. Do you tell your insurance company everytime you replace tyres?
Winter tyres really do polarise people don't they? Proper Marmite. The difference is the people who love them have tried them, the people who don't, haven't.
I've yet to hear of a single person who's tried them and deemed them pointless/useless. Anyone going to prove me wrong?
tinas -
getting out of junctions is one area you can notice a difference. Saves wear from wheelspinning too - you might think that the spin on snow isnt wearing your tires but it is dont you worry.
those marked with the snowflake symbol offer significantly more grip and control when temps drop below 7 degrees vs the usual summer tyres
you see I think this is some smoke and mirrors by the tyre companies. I've seen the graph that shows the performance 'drop' at 7 deg but I'd like to see what the baseline is...
I've been commuting across dartmoor for 4 yrs now. anything from 35deg to -15degs. if it snows heavily (about ten days in 4 years) then I take another route but in any other conditions there really isnt that great a difference in my summer tyre performance. maybe a bit but then if its a bit ropey then I slow up a bit.
That'd be £630 for two weeks a year.
You needn't spend that amount. c.£95-200 for fronts and if you have space save them for next year?
No worries in 30cm snow, towing boats, Scottish pass-storming on closed roads etc etc. All on either a rover 75 or berlingo. The difference is night and day!
I bought both sets of mine from mytyres (Germans I think), and for about £15 extra per wheel they came on steel wheels. Still get the local garage to swap them over for me mind, but it's only 10 mins/£20.
if some of you need special tyres to drive in the rain you need to have a word with yourselves
That'd be £630 for two weeks a year.
I'm afraid I don't trust the opinions or conclusions of anyone who can't do simple arithmetic.
I'm out, not bothering arguing wi the supreme driving gods on this forum regarding the issue.
This thread is lacking a certain crikey killington. 🙂
[i]wsooner the government make it compulsory the better imo.[/i]
Eh?
My wife has a Land Rover and I've an AWD saloon; they work perfectly well in the snow/ice without the need to change tyres.
IMO Folk just need to learn to drive and also when its not safe to.
Apologies for the slight hijack.
I drive a company (leased) BMW-320D - rear wheel drive. I do about 30k miles a year. My tyres are about done - fronts barely legal, rears shot. I'm managing okay in the current conditions by putting some extra weight in the boot, but would rather have the extra cold/wet grip afforded by the correct rubber.
I recently contacted the lease department to tell them I wanted to put winter tyres on and they refused. OEMs only.
Their reasoning was that as it snows very infrequently, then "snow tyres" will not be issued - I can have them at my own expense. I tried the argument that they're winter tyres rather than snow tyres but it didn't make any difference.
Anyone got any tips for persuading them otherwise?
Two things
So whats the impact on Winter tyres when used in >7 degrees temp and dry roads, with regard to grip and wear?
and
Although I admit it may not have been the smartest decision, I took a 230bhp rwd auto beemer with 255's on the rear out to a biking meet during last years snow with no issue. I drove according to the conditions, didn't crash or slide. So to me its as much about the driver skills also, no?
Folk just need to learn to drive and also when its not safe to.
Yep, but this is the Great British Public you're talking about.
How many of you naysayers have ever noticed a difference between tread pattern and compound on a mtb tyre?
IMO Folk just need to learn to drive and also when its not safe to.
Is confused. Why did you waste money on a Landy and an AWD if it's just a question of judgement or skill?
getting out of junctions is one area you can notice a difference. Saves wear from wheelspinning too - you might think that the spin on snow isnt wearing your tires but it is dont you worry.
And therein lies my point, unless you're 17 in a McDonalds car park trying to get the local jailbait into your back seat, how often do you skid to notice a sudden increace in grip imediately after changeing tyres?
In an ememrgency or accident, yes they may well be better.
It's the evangelists who claim they've transformed their lives that perplex me.
summer tyres, winter tyres!
cheapest black rubber on all four corners thank you very much.
on average there is one or two days a year when i wont drive and its due to traffic not conditions. £630 (source unknown) for a set of tyres to use for a maximum of a month per year is bonkers, thats more than my car/tax/insurance costs and its nearly half the value of my hardtail.