…on exactly the same bike with exactly the same wheels and tyres in exactly the same conditions on exactly the same road, BUT

first on the most recent, fully-mechanical Dura-Ace, then on the most recent, fully-mechanical Ultegra, which Froome would win?

How low down the groupset range do you think he would have to before it made a huge difference to his results? So, for example, could Froome on 105 hold his own against Froome on Dura-Ace?

I suppose the same could be asked about a competitive mountain biker and his/her groupset as well, but that would be another thread.

In any case, you can apply the same question to Campagnolo if you prefer.

42 seconds per 1000km

The one with the asthma inhaler …

Will never be a huge difference. Very marginal all the way down the range. Weight difference is probably less than a good gulp on a water bottle. Are the DA front calliper and brifters any more aero than the 105?

A more interesting one would be Froome on mechanical vs Froome on Di2. I reckon Di2 (at least Ultegra) is faster as you can shift without backing off the power. And the advantages are even bigger in TT where you can shift with no disruption to position. Probably a few seconds over a 40k TT. Though the front and rear mechs are a bit bulkier and less aero.

So Froome on Osymetric rings vs Froome on round rings anyone…? 🙂

If you watch the GCN shows of the mechanics trucks surprising how many teams have Ultegra cassettes and chains as spares.

The one in second with 150m to go

depends what stem he’s using

If you watch the GCN shows of the mechanics trucks surprising how many teams have Ultegra cassettes and chains as spares.

bikes have to be 6.8kg as a minimum though, so its a good place to add weight

the dura ace cassette is shit as well, with a million page weight weenie thread about the carbon carrier cracking

It also wears better iirc

I’d like to see Froome from the Barloworld era race himself in the Sky era currently..

I remember him doing the Vuelta yonks ago and thinking to myself ” he’s talented” now he’s just a machine.

now he’s just a machine

I assume you mean that positively. If not, I’ll fight ya’.

Not much difference I dont think. Less than a min or 2 over a three week tour I would guess. That could the the difference between first and second though I suppose.

You are asking whether Froome should be faster with a full or half empty bidon? Over the course of three weeks?

There are far bigger factors at play, and plenty of other places to trim down weight. Now if you’d said swapping those Dura Ace wheels and tubs for some cheap heavy clincher rims and GP4 Seasons, then I’d expect a decent margin.

Some of the continental teams race Ultegra. They are the teams that have to buy their equipment.

BTW the pros all ride electronic TT bikes, but this is because there is a BIG positional advantage in UCI races. Measurements are all to the tips of the shifters/extensions in most forward and vertical positions. Obviously no levers means the extensions can be longer and higher.

@TiRed: It’s not just about the miniscule difference in weight; I am also asking about the difference in function.

I mean, Dura-Ace is a HUGE leap in cost from Ultegra, and Ultegra less so from 105. On that basis, while I understand weight is a consideration, I have always wondered if the functional difference was enough to win a race, all other things being equal.

There is no difference in function. I have both. Race Ultegra, pose on DA9000.

I think Froomy is a machine in a positive sense, finely honed and fit for purpose. Obvs he’s been trained to do that, to find the most effective way of riding a bike for his own attributes. Bit dull I reckon, but the Barloworld days were just full of his exciting punts and bike handling.. in a raw sense.

Today’s GCN show backs TiRed up. Ultegra and DuraAce now functionally identical. 500g weight difference down to materials.

Is Dura Ace any more durable?

A mechanical can cost minutes or a bucket load of energy if you get dropped – failure rates must play a part…

The casettes are LESS durable. I’ve not noticed any other difference. Mechanics are trying to build a bike UP to not down to the UCI limit. Ultegra casettes are an easy way to find 100g or so.

Honestly, there is really no difference. I like the DA. I try and convince myself that it has lighter snappier shifting. It doesn’t.

Has he had a big poo before the race?

I’ve got Ultegra on my endurance bike and DA on my hooligan bike and there IS a difference; both perform well but DA is superbly sharp and snappy. But maybe that’s just because Anthony at Ride On is such a good mechanic and he set it up so well – I haven’t had to make any adjustment or change to the bike in 1600 miles except to take up the wear in the brakes.

both perform well but DA is superbly sharp and snappy

Swap the Ultegra cables over to DA 😉

There is a BIG difference going from 10 to 11 speed shifting (for hidden cables), but 11 speed redirected the cables and the differences are largely driven by cable quality. My favourite is still 10 speed with external cables.

I can’t imagine any difference in electronic shifting.

Almost certainly no difference on a standard GT day, even a high mountain day, assuming the bike still weighs at the UCI minimum and there have to be no other compromises to the bike to achieve the UCI minimum.

If it wasn’t Froome though and was perhaps a rider heading off on a solo breakaway on a 200km flat TdF stage? Perhaps a little more friction from a heavier drivetrain, a little less aero on the shifters, etc might amount to a handful of seconds.

It seems likely to me that amateur riders looking to save weight achieve more than pro riders do from some of the higher end, lighter components. Especially as the pros can guarantee that their bikes are cleaned / lubed / fettled / maintained to a consistent standard daily, so lower quality parts issues won’t arise.

I’ve only ever had one cassette actually fall apart on me and that was an (admittedly, quite well used) XTR block, where the rivets securing the sprockets to the spiders all came loose and it all started moving around by itself.

I’ve learnt my lesson on recent bikes and now run…an M9000 XTR cassette, which is running very nicely, thanks for asking 🙂

My Dura Ace 9000 cassette creaks horribly, as they basically all do. Would have bought Ultegra, but it was cheaper to get a groupset bundle with DA cassette than cherry pick parts to get Ultegra cassette.

I’ve got 9070 on one bike and 6870 on another. No performance difference in electronic either!

DP

To the OP, if it weighs a bit less, Froome on the more expensive stuff will win. If the bike is at the minimum weight anyway, I doubt there would be any difference.

It seems likely to me that amateur riders looking to save weight achieve more than pro riders do from some of the higher end, lighter components. Especially as the pros can guarantee that their bikes are cleaned / lubed / fettled / maintained to a consistent standard daily, so lower quality parts issues won’t arise.

I don’t run any XTR or Dura-Ace, but I wouldn’t dream of racing a bike that wasn’t as well lubed and fettled as possible – certainly if I was spending more it would be on replacing worn out parts earlier rather than replacing bits with XTR and running them to the same state of wear.

A clean Tiagra drivetrain doesn’t give much Rapha Clubhouse posing cred though.

I don’t run any XTR or Dura-Ace, but I wouldn’t dream of racing a bike that wasn’t as well lubed and fettled as possible – certainly if I was spending more it would be on replacing worn out parts earlier rather than replacing bits with XTR and running them to the same state of wear.

A clean Tiagra drivetrain doesn’t give much Rapha Clubhouse posing cred though.
I’m sure that’s true. But are you confident that you turn your bike out, day in day out, to the same standard as a good pro team mechanic will with the team’s racing bikes?

I bet a pro mechanic could get my Sora clad bike to run more freely and efficiently than I could (and therefore “make me faster”), but instead I could buy a groupset which saved me a ton of weight, fit it badly but still end up with a significant weight saving which therefore “makes me faster”.