Hang on a mo. I’m not convinced that wheels should be trashed by that kind of crash. Was the replacement particularly cheap or lightweight, and folded causing the crash, not as a result?

Having said that, Cannock was sketchy at the weekend. Incredibly dry and dusty.

Your geometry is not the reason – my Sanderson has similar geometry, and many DH bikes were that steep back in the day.
Sounds like both oops and perhaps a proper skillz in cornerz coaching session needed.

Are you sure that the reason for both crashes was not the front wheel buckling? It’s pretty strange for a wheel to collapse after losing grip unless it’s had a direct impact. Could the reason for both crashes have been the failure of the front wheel?

Are you sure that the reason for both crashes was not the front wheel buckling? It’s pretty strange for a wheel to collapse after losing grip unless it’s had a direct impact. Could the reason for both crashes have been the failure of the front wheel?

It had crossed my mind

initially I was using alexrim ZX24 (came with the bike) but replaced those rims (myself) with WTB i19.

I’ve ridden with these Rims a number of times on rockier terrain and they were still running perfectly true. I gave the spokes a flick before I started to check they were still ok (not very scientific I know).

I don’t really remember much and not sure exactly where it happened (it was on one of the final descents and out in the open with no trees) but I do know I didn’t hit anything (as there was nothing to hit) and I was going pretty quick and riding it pretty hard.

I cannot get my head around how the wheel is so bent from an understeer and was questioning really if its possible that I bent the wheel by overcorrecting the front wheel sliding?

I’ve seen front wheels buckle like you’re describing, usually it’s where the front wheel loses grip and you jerk the bars and grab the brake pitching you over the front. With the front wheel now 90 degrees to the forces of you braking and trying to stay behind the wheel/bars, the wheel is now in it’s weakest orientation so the rim is likely to buckle.

What you need to do to rectify it hard to say. Cheapest option is to try and adapt your riding position, be that by swapping stem spacers or just staying more forward over the bars when doing whatever it was when you had your crashes, to maintain traction.

p.s. I tend to crash a lot more riding my “enduro” ht than my full bounce enduro bike. Hardtails are a bit less forgiving.

It’s just frustrating when it leaves you out of pocket.

IME XC bikes with old school geometry become even worse if you put short stem and riser bars on them. Fully committing and putting enough weight on descents is a must… that said on a bad day or unknown trails it requires bit too much and all flow is lost.

Oh and make sure that fork does not dive too much, on a HT it should not be too plush.

So do you think if I had a stronger rim I might have gotten away with it?

Is the I19 a strong rim? Could the poor quality of spokes be causing the rim to fold?

The wheels on my giant seem pretty damn strong (P-XC2 as they have a deep profile) and maybe that’s why I haven’t bent those?

Slow down to a level you know you’re not going to crash, look ahead and concentrate on technique. After a while start to try to carry speed but not to a level you feel you’re in danger of crashing.

69.5 is not steep for an XC bike.

Is the I19 a strong rim? Could the poor quality of spokes be causing the rim to fold?

More likely poor build quality…(but including spokes and nipples)…

I tend to view cheap-pre built wheels more as pre-laced than pre-built…
Maybe a more thorough pre-ride check on the spoke tension in case 1-2 have really come slack.

More likely poor quality of the riding.

More likely poor quality of the riding.

Even great riders make mistakes but you don’t expect a wheel to collapse, especially the front one just on “poor riding technique” and one you “don’t know what happened”.

I went OTB a few weeks ago but I definitely know why… (and I know it was sloppy technique as I was following the kid and not paying attention) and despite the wheel hitting a root in a 1′ deep ditch really hard (yepo really not paying attention) the wheel didn’t collapse… (though it did need a bit of truing)

Ditch your SPDs

I thought front slide out at speed crashes were very likely to result in wheel damage?

Only if you smack it hard and sideways into a rock or something equally solid. More bending force on a planted, cornering wheel than a sliding one.

and I do remember not hitting anything like that and there was nothing to hit anyway!

Go on a skills course. It’s amazing what you learn / un-learn. Best bike related £50 I’ve spent.

and I do remember not hitting anything like that and there was nothing to hit anyway!

Sometimes hard to be sure though when it happens in 1/10th second … but it really takes hitting something or having it at 90 degrees to collapse unless your spoke tension is screwed…

Some loose spokes with tight ones on the other side can easily collapse a wheel though.

I got some £100/pair wheels (well that was sale price) and the spoke tension was all over before I re-finished them. I actually fitted the front first and first ride it was a cm out on one half (straightened a bit on the trail).. got home and just retensioned everything and checked the back (as yet unused wheel)and several spokes were not really tight.

Firstly, everyone crashes occasionally, it’s part of progression, it’s how we learn limits, and even if you are the best rider in the world you’ll still make mistakes from time to time, don’t get hung up on the fact you crashed in a similar way twice, it might just be coincidence, and don’t beat yourself up for crashing.

However, this problem (whatever it is) cannot be reliably diagnosed over the internet. Sorry, but that’s just the way it is, even if by pure chance someone above has hit the nail directly on the head, you won’t know for sure.

Do not change any components/setup yet, this needs a real life person* watching you to see what’s going on, you may be doing something fundamentally wrong, you might not, it might be that you only do something wrong under certain conditions, or there might be something glaringly obviously wrong with your bike/setup, or you may have simply exceeded your skills.

*It doesn’t have to be a professional skills coach (but they would be ideal!), but it does need to be someone who has not just the skills to ride better than you, but the skills to analyse your riding, and then offer appropriate advice/coaching in a way in which you understand and can implement.

The marbles were out in force over cannock at the weekend. I rode a fair bit slower than normal so I didn’t die.

The issue with Cannock is that you need to get your weight over the front a lot for grip, but when it lets go it goes quickly and you hit the ground fast.

A hardtail will be steerer than a full suss at ride height too with the same static numbers.

Wheels are immensely strong vertically .I’ve seen the result of someone hitting a car head on with enough force to destroy the forks and bend the down tube.The front wheel was completely unscathed (Me).
And surprisingly weak laterally.I’ve seen the result of someone tucking the front wheel at walking pace on a gravel car park and taco the wheel beyond repair (Also me).
Both wheels were professionally built (Me again) and not your cheap ass flimsy sheet neiver.
Falling off (other than catastrophic gear failure and acts of gawd) is the deficit between technique and required outcome.
If you’ve crashed….it’s because of something you’ve done/failed to anticipate.

I don’t suppose any tyres grip really well on loose gravel either?

I like Vigilantes at Cannock, better than any of the other front tyres I’ve had.

thinking of buying a WTB wheelset with Bronsons already fitted as my rear tyre needs replacing anyway. Not sure how they compare to nobby nic

Damage from the W/E involves:

-Severe scratches to the lower fork side – superficial
-bent brake levers – needs replacing
-bent wheel – needs replacing
-Broken remote lock lever
-smashed case on mio cyclo 305 which no longer mounts to the bracket

Love that ^^ 😆

EDIT assuming the rider wasn’t badly injured.. actually looks like it could be pretty bad….

Almost any bike can be ridden successfully at a trail centre or down a mountain, within certain limitations.

My 100mm forked 29er XC hardtail on 2.35 Nobby Nics has been ridden on all kinds of terrain. I don’t crash it any more than any other bike 😉

It’s all about weight distribution and attacking the trail.

As somebody once almost said,

“It’s not about the…” ….head angle.

This is a good read:

The picture above of the crash – how do you even get in that situation? If my front wheel loses grip it slides out to the side.

I would be surprised if your wheel collapsed causing it – even when cornering the forces are fairly close to in plane as you lean the bike over.

There are little corrections you can make to save these things, but if you don’t see it coming, it will happen fast. Ignore the ices one.

A hardtail or rigid will be less forgiving than a FS. I rode rigid for a bit and fell off quite a bit – it was much easier to find yourself on the wrong side of your skill boundary with no option to scrub off speed etc.

Those angles aren’t *that* steep for a 29er, and I don’t think they’d be the source of this issue. You will fall off from time to time, sounds like a chunk of bad luck with the results of the crashes.

As others have said, not diagnosable over the internet.

Edit – that won’t stop us trying if you could just do it again on video this time though.

and I appreciate you all trying:). TBH it helps me to get it all off my chest ha ha!!!

The picture above of the crash – how do you even get in that situation?

Front wheel tuck – Come in fast to a corner, lean with the bike, keeping your weight back and touch the front brake, or jerk on the bars, or hit a lump to transfer your weight forwards.

If my front wheel loses grip it slides out to the side.

Then you are probably leaning the bike more than your body, correctly weighting the front wheel, keeping off the brakes and turning smoothly.

😀

Too much speed into a corner and jamming on brakes and/or over correction for the inevitable overshoot, catch on something and end up wheel at 90 degrees. Maybe. Brush off speed before the corner, off the brakes, flow through to (and sight) the exit.

Rorschach – Member 
Wheels are immensely strong vertically

Unless they are carbon American Classic rims vs bunny hop on a humble fireroad, but that’s another story.