Viewing 9 posts - 81 through 89 (of 89 total)
  • Ian Tomlinson unlawfully killed
  • ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t trust anyone called Freddy Patel anyway, I mean, it’s not like it’s a proper name.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    so there wasn’t really anything ongoing to then react to

    I think you’ll find that there was an injured man who required assistance, he was helped by bystanders but coppers a few feet away seemed hugely unconcerned by the incident, and totally ignore the perpetrator – presumably they thought everything was fine and tickety-boo ?

    Would they have reacted in exactly the same way if Ian Tomlinson had been assaulted by a protester ? I somehow doubt it and reckon they reacted in the way they did because they believed that everything which had occurred was acceptable.

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    But was it just incompetence, or did he collude with the police to give the verdict they wanted?

    I think if you look into el Freds background you will find that incompetence looms fairly large. There doesn’t seem to be any suggestion anywhere of collusion with the Plod. Try this for example

    Also, am I right in thinking – the officer in question falsely claimed to have had no contact with Tomlinson, and this version of events wasn’t contested until the video footage came out.

    …… Lie not challenged before contrary evidence comes to hand shocker!

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    KennySenior
    Free Member

    What do you suggest they should have done with the perpetrator then? Arrested him? All turned their backs on the protesters to argue with him? I don’t know, maybe they did think it was ok. I just don’t think you can draw any conclusion from what we saw. To be fair, you did acknowledge that you were only presuming that they condoned his actions. Are the transcripts of their evidence available yet, that might give a more accurate insight into their views than just making assumptions?

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    I am also aware that none of the countless police officers who witnessed the incident reacted in a way which you might expect them to react if one of their colleagues had behaved in a manner not in keeping with their training. They appear to be hugely comfortable with the situation, and Pc Harwood returns to his post in a relaxed manner not betraying any hint of concern that he has just landed himself into serious trouble.

    I personally know of other cases where one officer was violent/out of order and the other officer with them stood around looking non-committal until asked by a passing mmember of the public if officer 1 should be doing that. They replied no and then officer 2 started asking officer 1 to stop, only when questioned by the public.

    I suspect the training does not strictly say “only when someone is causing trouble is it OK to use a baton” etc, it’s called common sense and that is a personal fault for which he should be held responsible.

    No, but if I did fall over (or get pushed) (there’s a riot going on, man!) I would like to be able to break my fall with my hands. Call them protective.

    The riot wasn’t exactly close to this incident though was it, and he was clearly intoxicated. Both of these facts should have been taken into consideration by the police who instead chose to shove him to the floor when they could see he was clearly incapable of stopping himself and not causing any harm. I’m all for giving violent protestors a kicking if they’re using violence against someone else, but this case is clearly not even close to that. The police are trusted with a difficult task, they are employed and trained for their abilities to do that. IF they can’t do that they should not be police.

    What do you suggest they should have done with the perpetrator then? Arrested him? All turned their backs on the protesters to argue with him? I don’t know, maybe they did think it was ok.

    Pull him back and take him away, or at least attempt to help the guy up, are you suggesting the police are incapable of doing anything about a rogue officer? How are they meant to cope with riots if they can’t pick the right course of action in this instance? IIRC it is on record that the rest of the officers did not think this was an OK course of action.

    KennySenior
    Free Member

    I’m not sticking up for them, just trying to be fair.

    I’ve watched the video again. The officer hits him with the baton, then pushes him, then runs away all within 2 or 3 seconds. That’s not time for any other officer to get hold of him, and once he’s run away, how can they take him away?

    Fair point on helping him up, although there were two guys helping him within a second or two of him falling, and within 12-15 seconds he was back up on his feet.

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    The point is that its not right for fellow officers to just stand by, presuming thats what they did. This guy apparently threw a photgrapher to the floor a few minutes earlier, then he welted Tomlinson with a baton, then he pushed Tomlinson to the ground.

    The simple fact is had any of his colleagues remonstrated with him it is entirely possible that Tomlinson may still be alive and importantly in respect of the “macho, all boys together, must back up my mates” culture, Harwood may not be facing losing not only his career but quite possibly his liberty over acting like a cock….. and lets face it if that were a hanging offence on its own who amongst us would still be in work without our mates pointing out the error of our ways to us at some point or other in our lives?)

    grum
    Free Member

    Senior police were told 48 hours after Ian Tomlinson’s death that officers had witnessed a colleague push him to the ground at the G20 protests, but the information was withheld from the police watchdog.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/09/ian-tomlinson-evidence-held-back

    Looks like some officers did speak out, but there was a cover-up….

    BillMC
    Full Member

    Collusion? Patel was told by the police to rule out any reference to violence or civil disorder from his coroner’s inquiry.

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