10 years or so ago I used to ride a fully rigid Orange P7 with flat bars and bar-ends. It had old-skool geometry with a 120mm stem and long top-tube, and it usually had 1.9″ tyres on it. Weighed about 23lbs. The riding position was good for climbing and eating up the miles. Of course, it was rubbish off-road compared to my modern Orange 5, I can do far more on that than I could on the P7 but it got me thinking…

I’d go on long rides down here in the Valleys to pick up certain trails that looked good on the map, but since I didn’t have a car and I lived in Cardiff, there was always loads of road in the rides – say 20 out of a 40 mile ride. I don’t think I’d do a ride like that on my Orange 5 as the shorter more upright position and big tyres etc make it a chore.

So I was thinking – one could build up a kind of hybrid MTB (but not a hybrid bike) that was still a proper off-roader but make it long, steep angles, flat bars, lockout forks and put say 1.9 semi-slicks or small-tread tyres (Racing Ralphs say) to help it eat up those miles.

What are people’s thoughts? To be honest if I still had the P7 I’d be converting it for that purpose now, but it got pinched 🙁

sounds like you are looking for an xc bike with fast rolling tyres. There are lots of those around. Spesh Epic, Superlight, Inbred, take your pick.

Did exactly what you describe, but with rigid forks and think it has a place. Plan to SS mine in the winter for commuting on towpath / back lanes when it’s too muddy for full offroad, and will use it as a more comfortable / versatile summer touring / exploring bike in the next few months

Or buy a CX…

I built/ride what you have just described and for the same reasons.
Loving it.

A few things have changed since the pic was taken but you get the idea.
stem is now a Stntace F99 105mm
Titanium MG1’s
Selle SLR 135g
Schwalbe Fast Freds
Cassette is now Dura ace 12-27
Chain is a KNC SL

On and On, what are the forks?

There are lots of those around. Spesh Epic, Superlight, Inbred,

Not the same thing at all. Full sus is out as it’s heavy, Inbred etc angles too slack. The point was the frame on the old bike made it perfect for eating up the road miles, but I don’t think they make them like that any more. Possibly an out-and-out XC race frame would do. CX wouldn’t work since the trails when I get to them are typically quite seriously steep and very rocky indeed.

on and on – can’t see that pick at work, what frame is it?

the frame is a Giant XTC carbon (2006)
Fork is a Trigon Carbon ,which is under 500 grams with start nut fitted.
I used a few other carbon forks with tube style legs but they are double the weight and just dont ride as well.

This thing has been through some quite serious stick and its come out the other end without any issues.

was a guy racing at SXC yesterday on a GT Zum frame which is a hybrid …..it had all xc race parts on it mind !

Cotic roadrat conversion?

There was a long-term review in ST a while back [Sim’s I think].

so you want a build thats at home on miles and miles of the black stuff but then equally happy on ‘seriously rocky’ trails.

anything else? or shall we move directly to the pics of moons on sticks?

so you want a build thats at home on miles and miles of the black stuff but then equally happy on ‘seriously rocky’ trails.

Obviously it’ll be less capable on the rocks as compared to my 5, but still doable. More than a CX bike I think.

Not necessarily asking for recommendations, just wondering if anyone else has gone down that path? That is, an MTB build to be as road friendly as possible whilst still being a bona fide MTB.

i wouldn’t rule out full suss, the giant anthem X climbs faster than enything i’ve ever riden.

Why not put some fast tires on the 5, pump them upto 60psi, pump up the shock, and ride it to the trails? Take a shock pump with you and drop the pressure once you get there?

“Hybrid MTB”?

I could, of course, I could just ride the thing as it is, but it’s a hypothetical question really. The 5 is less than ideal for 20 miles of road cos of the riding position.

I haven’t ridden 20 miles of road as part of an MTB ride for many years – perhaps that’s why? Or maybe it’s cos I have a car and can drive up to where the trails are 🙂

Inbred etc angles too slack

are you seriously suggesting that a slightly slacker headangle makes a bike slower on the road? daft. And full sus is heavier is it? my Yeti ASR weighs 24lb and thats not particularly light for a good xc bike, my mates 5 is 25lb and thats survived some rough treatment. Just put some faster tyres on the 5 and a longer stem, full sus makes no difference on the road unless you insist on standing up all the time to pedal (which is inefficient anyway).

Are you trying to tell me FS isn’t heavier? For the same money as a 25lb 5 you could build up a 20lb fully rigid bike! A 5 frame weighs 7lbs, a Scott Scale weighs 2.7lbs. Do the maths, as they say. BTW my 5 weighed 25.5lbs at its lightest.

The angles thing is about handling on road, not speed.

Hybrid is what hybrid does in my book (rather than fitting a specific build criteria).

I don’t drive and do lots of cycling, mostly on road but with bridleways, tracks and trails and whatever too – just fun, getting out in the open type riding rather that high speed, high andrenaline sheenanigans. My bike was built to suit those needs and is fab. It’s got lock-out forks but if On-One ever decide to do their nice steel Superlights in a 100mm+ equivalent (in Sand) I think I’d probably goes for those.

OP – IKWYM and find myself in teh same position.

But the notion that position and angles really matter on the road is nonsense. What matters most is weight and tyre pressure, suspension a wee bit but that’s psychological.

So a light modern hardtail with light tyres pumped up hard will do what you ask.

are you seriously suggesting that a slightly slacker headangle makes a bike slower on the road? daft.

hehe… I was thinking the same thing.

Slack seat angles are a bit of a drag though. Glad I had a nice steep seat angle on my Ragley when I had to ride from HB to Mytholmroyd and back (with 42a Highrollers) with a can of petrol when I ran out the other day.

You could probably build something like a Scandal with carbon forks and kit into something silly light. My 853 Inbred is a real bloater at 29lb (but it is a large 20″ steel frame with durable rather than ultra-light kit) but it’s absolutely fine on the road and off. I can 50 mile rides on it no problem but then I ride to enjoy the riding and gave up chasing roadies long ago.

If I had money for new built though I might consider a Singular Swift rigid 29er.

But the notion that position and angles really matter on the road is nonsense

Not nonsense. It’s about comfort and psychology as far as I’m concerned. And position DEFINITELY matters. Sitting upright makes it more difficult to get the power down and makes you less aero. That’s not marketing brainwashing, that’s from experience.

Having said that about angles PJ’s On-one looks good 🙂 I might be prepared to concede on the head angle front.

sorry, didnt realise you were going to throw money at it to get a 20lb one, thought you were talking about getting something similar to your old P7.

sorry, didnt realise you were going to throw money at it to get a 20lb one

I’m not, I was pointing out that FS is heavier than HT! And that a 25lb Orange 5 has to have had some money thrown at it. I’m not even shopping for bikes at all any time soon, it was an academic question.

I’ve just built this for wazzing around MK and doing a bit of distance stuff

Got the new Kinesis fork which is supposedly for CX but disc mount only

Not nonsense. It’s about comfort and psychology as far as I’m concerned. And position DEFINITELY matters. Sitting upright makes it more difficult to get the power down and makes you less aero. That’s not marketing brainwashing, that’s from experience.

For the vast majority it matters little – it’s not like a flat back tt position of Fignon et al vs upright, at 30mph. It’s at slightly leaning forward vs leaning forward a bit more, at probably 14-17 mph for most casual mtb’rs. I don’t have lower positions when I race – your body is used to producing more power in the position it is used to, leaning forward does not increase your power output FFS. I accept that there is psycology also – but that’s all it is, if you accept that then it no longer matters.

I took the old cheap and heavy suspension forks off my hardtail and replaced with fully rigid carbon numbers. I now have a much lighter HT that is great for exactly what you describe, and has given me loads of fun learning to ride the bumpy stuff without simply letting the suspension swallow it all up. I had a fab 45/50km ride the the Dales the other week and the road sections were far from a drag. It climbs like a goat too.

Go for it I say.

Has someone mentioned the ROADRAT already? Oh, yes they have. Often wonder how many people misunderstand what that bike can do because of the name. I like mine off road, with conti double fighters on it, but then I’m biased.

For the vast majority it matters little

Based on what?

I thought it was fairly well accepted that a more stretched position gave you more power or at least made it easier to get the power down. It’s certainly what I’ve found over the years of riding different bikes and experimenting with the positions. It’s why roadies and XC racers stretch out.

In my experience (as in actually what I’ve tried and ridden, for months at a time) as little 10mm on the stem can make a significant difference to the way a bike rides. It affects the weight distribution on contact points, the way your back muscles are used, the weight distribution re handling, the way the suspension works, all sorts.

I don’t have lower positions when I race – your body is used to producing more power in the position it is used to, leaning forward does not increase your power output FFS.

I do. I also have a power meter on my road bike, and I can say that it is definitely easier to keep the same power when on the hoods than it is on the bends or tops.

Honestly, I don’t want to get into an argument about it but really I am not a gullible fool and I take a good deal of care in trying to understand the mechanics of bike and rider and how things like riding position affect the ride.

I’m sure the majority of people just don’t care, but I do. And for those that don’t care, I’m sure a bit of well-informed tweaking could make their rides better in many cases.

Practical example: On the roadie, rotated the bars downwards slightly and moved the hoods up. Result – no more sore shoulders that have been plaguing me on a 4 hour ride! Although moving the hoods closer resulted in a bit less leverage when out of the saddle and hence sprinting is slighly more effective. I didn’t imagine it 🙂

Take a spare stem and swap it over as required…?

I’ve been thinking about a rigid 29er for this king of thing, Surly Karate Monkey?

That could be a great option actually, the 29er thing. I could go for a bit of suspension, not neccessarily rigid, but I would want lockout. Would a 29er be heavier?