15 years ago my lactate threshold was about 185, I was racing a bit and knew all that stuff.

I’ve kept riding to a reasonable fitness level but raced rarely, also taken up running to a decent std.

Recent riding suggests my LT is about 167…is this likely/reasonable?

Any good ways of self-testing?

🙁 Anyone?

Jump on turbo, thorough warm up, then 30mins flat out/TT effort.

Take average pulse for last 20 mins of 30min effort, which will approximate to lactate threshold. Then use Joe Friel/british cycling percentages to get training zones if that it what you are after…

painful bit

zone calculator

finish by cursing the existance of turbos…

ps try to pace threshold test evenly to not blow up. Don’t watch your HR meter, it doesn’t help

edit – usual disclaimers re don’t kill yourself etc etc apply!

As I understand it, a high LTHR is not necessarily an indication of fitness. Just as max heart rate will be limited and you could reach max heart rate irrespective of how fit or unfit you are.

You could be unfit but able to disperse lactate at quite a high heart rate. You’d probably just be going slower though.

I’d imagine that LTHR will decline with age but on my reasoning you could still get fitter.

Jump on turbo, thorough warm up, then 30mins flat out/TT effort.

Take average pulse for last 20 mins of 30min effort

This was what I was going to say!

I don’t own a turbo!

Will do outdoors. Ta all

and there was me thinking this thread about Human Resources, downsizing and age discrimination had ended up in the wrong forum… ho hum…

Will do outdoors. Ta all

Find a decent, flat course to do it on ideally, stopping/coasting while descending can make a big difference.

It’s possible. I don’t pay that much attention to mine (work off power these days) but my FTHR has dropped quite a bit (maybe 10bpm) over the past 15 years (… but that’s pretty meaningless as an indicator of fitness.)

Self testing will give you an idea of Functional Threshold HR. For LTHR you need lab testing.

OK is FTHR anything more/other than an estimate of LTHR?

Yes, Mr Blobby, how does functional threshold heart rate differ from lactate threshold heart rate. Google suggests its either LTHR or FTP, not FTHR? Or maybe not many people refer to FTHR?

LTHR is usually defined as the point at which lactic acid starts to accumulate beyond a certain rate and can only be measured in a lab.

FTHR is defined as the average HR of a max 1hr effort. Field tests that claim to be measuring LTHR are actually measuring FTHR.

I think for most it doesn’t really matter as you just need a value you understand and can work with. Helps that it’s easily repeatable too. Though if you do ever get some lab testing done you may well end up with a LTHR that is quite a bit higher or lower than your FTHR (which can be useful to know.)

Several terms often seem to be mixed up which causes loads of confusion when trying to read up about this sort of stuff on forums…

Have a read of Joe Friels book if you haven’t already and if you want to get scientific your local uni will probably have the facilities to test you properly. If you are part of a club they often do group discounts too. My local uni cost about £100 to get tested and give some advice on forming my training plan – about 3-4hours in total. Worth it far more than upgrading a rear mech from XT to XTR….

But for most people, surely lactate build up beyond a certain point will influence how much effort they will want to put in and therefore their heart rate – so FTHR will be more meaningful to an individual?

If I can mentally withstand whatever pain builds up over an hour of max effort, then whatever my average heart rate is over the hour will be more useful than some lab test telling me that actually my LTHR is higher (say) than my FTHR – and actually I could be pushing harder? (or vice versa)

Yes, FTHR is probably a more useful number to understand and work with.

Though power is a much more useful thing to work with. You can build up a good picture of max power at say 30s, 1m, 5m, 10m, 20 min, etc. which is more meaningful to most than LT, and can be used to focus your training. Can’t really do that with HR with the same sort of accuracy. HR doesn’t track effort very well. Also HR is affected by things like cooling and fatigue.

Cheers Mr Blo.

I should be getting my powercal in a couple of weeks so I’ll ding any FTHR test till then!

Darn it, Mr Blobby, I knew I needed to buy a power meter!!? 😉

Cynic-al – I’ve just bought a powercal and been using it for about a week – would be interested to see what you think when you’ve tried yours!

Now looking at a Stages crank arm….

Didn’t Idave used to say that some of these thresholds can change daily based on sleep, temperature, hormones

Agree with the above about FTHR and LTHR differences- as Mr Blobby says one is lab based, the other can be field based.

Also as some others have alluded to, the actual HR you are hitting at any threshold isn’t really a useful statistic at all- as it gives no indication of the mower output (or speed) at that threshold (I.e. Are you more or less powerful post taking up running etc.).

As an example if I hit my LT at 145 bpm (possible in some people), but am churning out 350w, then I’m going to be ‘fitter’ (ie faster) than most people, but with a low HR for one reason or another. Could be age, could be muscular or mechanical efficiency etc etc.

Its no good as a comparison against other people, but individually you’d see an increase in speed for the same heart rate?

Admittedly it will be a bit up and down depending on how your heart rate is affected by illness or general run down-ness etc, but over time you would see an increase in speed for the same heart rate surely?

Then the only way to tell if you’re going to be able to compete [in a race say] is to get out there and find out.

But even with a power meter, how much genuine rider data is there out there anyway, for amateur racers in cats 2,3,4??

And how much is “I was flying, must have been pushing 400W up that climb!!” with no scientific measurement 😉

If I bought a power meter, I still don’t know what power I should be aiming for to make sure I can compete in races.

Mtbtomo, often post this from here…

May be different for things like TTs and flatter road races where power is more significant than weight, but it’s interesting all the same.

Powercals btw, are ok and have their uses. Don’t think it’s a substitute for a direct force power meter though.

If I bought a power meter, I still don’t know what power I should be aiming for to make sure I can compete in races.

Competing in races is more about saving your effort, positioning, being able to follow moves, and having a sprint. Power helps but you don’t need to be that powerful to get good results. There’s a big thread on here somewhere about being competitive in road races that’s worth a read.

Competing in races is more about saving your effort..

unless it’s cyclcoross..in which case do the opposite until you feel sick

Ah yes, assumed as mention of cats this was for road racing. Very different in CX.

I have only just stuck my toe in the water having read Joe Friel’s HR book and used a HRM for rides as well as using (virtual) power on a turbo. It seemed immediately obvious to me that HR is a useful indicator of the level of stress the body is under but not much more so is OK for steady state rides and especially recovery rides but power is so much more consistent & useful when it comes to intervals & high intensity stuff.

I think I saw and posted on the thread re. road racing. I really struggle when the pace surges e.g. sprinting out of corners. And doing it every lap. There are some big lads that hang on in there till the end, beyond the point me or my mind has said “balls to this” and made a conscious decision to back off.

So my focus is how to improve over the winter, and was interested in this thread as I’m using heart rate zones when out on the road.

I also bought a Powercal but as it just seems to track heart rate, I still can’t see what its doing for me that monitoring my heart rate won’t.

So I was looking at a Stages crank.

not sure why you need to know cyinical… i gave up with FT a while back. I still sue HR but have never used or owned a power meter. Then again I do not race.

I use the HR zones on Strava using my max HR rate of 188 and try to train within ‘Tempo’ or ‘moderate’ zones depending what I am aiming to achieve, either miles, distance, time or effort.

I also find the ‘suffer’ score on strava useful for measuring overall effort.

I even took off al my cadence sensors after being pissed off when thet intermittently worked! dont measure cadnence any more 🙂

I’m 50 starting 2nd year of mtb racing and went Stages a month ago. Until I get issues I think it’s a great system.

Training is harder – there’s no escaping the truth of wattage! I reckon I spend 25% more time in the correct power zone that I would have backed off on HR alone. I’m starting to get through brake pads from braking downhill and pedalling against resistance to keep in zone.

I’m really not looking forward to intervals. I realise I used to run my HR up to or beyond the desired zone then slack until it came back down.

aw – Member
not sure why you need to know cyinical

I don’t, I just want to know.

I have never understood why people use cadence meters.

If you aren’t racing anymore and can keep up with your riding pals then why would you want to know?

I want to know these things cos I’ve just started vaguely racing seriously and want to improve. If I wasn’t then I wouldn’t give a stuff about LTHR.

I don’t get what cadence meters are for either.

Why does it matter why I want to know?

It’s fun…and I have at least 1 race coming up, maybe another Ironman, no idea how seriously I’ll take them…