What wall fixing do I use??? Cavity wall raw plugs are spinning in their holes and wont tighten up….. 10mm Tiles (from hell…ceramic, although they’re so hard I wonder if that’s true!!) onto 12.5mm Marmox tile backer

I’ve been at this bathroom ages and I’m at the end of my tether!!!

If you can drill a bigger hole without it showing you could use something like this…

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/20385/Fixings/Cavity-Fixings/Rawlplug-Spring-Toggle-M5-x-50mm-Pack-of-20

Can’t you find a stud to drill into? Try lots of holes at 30mm intervals till you hit sawdust. Then they should be at 600mm centres. Tap on the other side of the wall too to find them.

If you didn’t secure a length of 4X2 or whatever behind the board before fixing & tiling then you have something to think about next time.

For this situation you want something that can take the weight of the screen & I assume it is hinged so fairly heavy duty fixing required. In the past I have used a metal fixing that you can push through a drilled hole, they have grippy bits built in to stop them spinning as you tighten the screw thread which in thrn causes the part pushed through the wall to expand behind it. Hard to describe, have you looked in the fixings section at your local DIY store?

Clearly, I didn’t think about securing anything behind the panel…. And I won’t be thinking about it next time, because there won’t be one!!

The shower screen has to fit the fitted bath, so I cant go drilling holes willy nilly

Something like this

Different widths are available, make sure they will be hidden. They are also made to go into different depths of material (tiles plus board) so make sure you get that right too.

I use THESE types of things. You can get them in various sizes, they will not turn in the hole. Not quite as strong as the toggles but easier to use as the hole size is pretty normal

And I won’t be thinking about it next time, because there won’t be one!!

🙂

There are loads of fixings in B&Q for various sorts. Also try squirting the hole full of no-nails before putting the rawlplug in.

Also tried those and they cant bite into the tile

Will No MOre Nails stop it spinnng???

If you put anything which expands within a hole driled in the tile (ie any sort of plug), you will crack the tile 🙁
It needs to grip in the substrate. – So you do need some of that. – Wood is good.

step by step please Mountain carrot

Sounds like it’s a stud wall. Since you have messed up already by not really thinking ahead. Try the toggle clamps first, probably your easiest practical option. – But if that doesn’t work then here’s what I’d try :

Remove one tile adjacent to the fitting area of the screen. Make sure you have a new one, because you’ll break it up by getting it off.
Cut an arm sized hole in the centre of the removed tile area, but avoiding the tile edges. I hope you have big tiles..
Reach through and bond large 20mm plywood strips/pads to the areas you want to screw. Use a combination of a good quality woodworking glue plus some instant fixer (eg hot melt glue) to hold them while the proper glue sets.
Carefully re-drill (don’t push the drill too hard or you’ll might still push the wood off) and screw in screen with woodscrews (ideally stainless ones).
Replace the tile with a new one, using lots of tile cement, and covering the hole edges in the process, re-grout. (If you want to bond back the piece of loose Marmott backer first, try an epoxy glue).

Alternatively break through the plasterboad from the room behind and set a stud in the right place where it should have been before!

Also tried those and they cant bite into the tile

You just need to stop the head spinning so the screw can splay the body behind your board. If your screen is of the type that has a length of metal chanel screwed to the wall then the screen attaches to that, you should have space to run a strip of material inside the channel that the head can bite into.

Mountaincarrot’s theory is good but I have to admit I’d be reluctant to start removing tiles unless it was the last resort.

I’ve been thinking about this as I know how frustrating it can be when you get these problems. Can you get some timber in behind the boarding by cutting a hole in the wall underneath the bath? It will be fiddly and can’t be done in one length but may be doable(up to the height you hit a crossmember anyway). As soon as you can see wood through one of the holes you have prepared in the tiling drill a pilot hole in it & get a screw in to hold it. Just a thought.

Just use fischer UX8 plugs. You’ll need to drill a clean 8mm hole, bang the plug in flush with a piece of timber. Thick bead of quality silicone on the channel, them screw up fairly tight with a screw driver, not a power driver. Use 5×50 stainless screws. Remove the excess silicone with a took and wipes. If it doesn’t ooze out, there’s not enough.

I guarantee the above to work or your money back.

Either get a batten/stud behind where you need to fix through to and Gripfill/Nonails it to the back of the board etc, but the easiest option is spring toggles.

Rawlplugs, nonails etc won’t hold on soft board material and so you’ll be hanging your shower screen on just the tiles. If the plugs don’t crack the tiles, expect the screen to come off the wall with a few tiles attached sometime down the line.

Ordinary red plugs should be fine as long as you do a tight hole, ie the plug has to be hammered in (gently). The ceramic tiles will easily hold a shower screen if the wall has been properly tiled. The problem is that you have been trying to get a fixing beyond the tiles, don’t do that – fix into the tiles themselves. As mentioned, plenty of clear silicone, but you should be using it anyway to make it all waterproof.

I’ve fixed countless shower screens this way and they’ve all been absolutely fine. The worst that can happen is that you occasionally crack a tile, but that only happens if the tile adhesive hasn’t been applied properly, ie, dabs instead of a solid amount.

Even if it was a solid non-cavity wall, I would still only fix into the tiles, as to go the past the tiles, plaster, and into the brick/blockwork would generally require a screw too large for the shower screen track.

One final word, if the rawlplug doesn’t go all the way in, don’t get tempted to cut off the protruding bit with a chisel, the plug needs to go all the way in otherwise it will expand in the wrong place and crack the tile, so take it out and drill a longer/bigger hole – but not so big that the plug is loose.

If your tiles are really that hard, you can get diamond tile bits which are cooled by a little reservoir of water – comes with them (expensive, but not that expensive) Otherwise use glass/tile spade bits (masonry bits are only a second choice) Good luck 🙂

Or don’t get a shower screen as they are horrible things that leak after a few years use. We decided to get a shower curtain instead and hang it on a stainless cable anchored to the ceiling. Only minor annoyance is that the curtain needs a clean once in a while due to the interesting colour of our water 🙂

as above, but for drilling the pesky holes try these, like a knife through butter.

tile and glass drills

Ordinary red plugs should be fine as long as you do a tight hole, ie the plug has to be hammered in (gently). The ceramic tiles will easily hold a shower screen if the wall has been properly tiled. The problem is that you have been trying to get a fixing beyond the tiles, don’t do that – fix into the tiles themselves. As mentioned, plenty of clear silicone, but you should be using it anyway to make it all waterproof.

I’ve fixed countless shower screens this way and they’ve all been absolutely fine. The worst that can happen is that you occasionally crack a tile, but that only happens if the tile adhesive hasn’t been applied properly, ie, dabs instead of a solid amount.

Er, sorry but that’s the last thing you should do! Rawl Plug fixings should always be pushed through the tile into the substrate. It you leave them in the tile, as you tighten the screw the plug expands and cracks the tile, it has nowt to do with if it’s been stuck on properly or not.
I’ve been tiling for 15 years, strangely the only tiles I’ve had problems with tiles cracking is when a plumber or the householder has fitted the screen themselves (and left the plugs flush)

I’m with Blazin-saddles on that point. I’d use a standard rawl plug to fix into brick or blockwork but I’d always tap the plug in past the tile.

Don’t forget to post up some pictures of the completed bathroom. Including your wife/daughter(age dependant) taking a shower is optional but appreciated 😀

Thanks for the constructive advice folks… I’ve got a few ideas to play around with now…. hopefully I won’t have to smash a wall down to install a shower screen!!

A warning to those about to undertake a bathroom refit…. GET A PROFESSIONAL TO DO IT!!!!!

I’ve been tiling for 15 years

And I’ve been fixing shower screens for a lot longer than that. Tap the plug past the tile, and it will simply spin in the void (in the case of a non solid wall of course)

“It you leave them in the tile, as you tighten the screw the plug expands and cracks the tile”

No, not if you are using the right size screw, the plug will not expand at all – just the bottom of it will splay out, and it’s that behind the back of the tile, which allows the screw to pull in the bathroom fitting.

You just need the…..right drill bit, right plug, right screw. In the case of shower screens : 6mm bit, red plug, inch and half sixes. I can’t begin to imagine how many finals I have done in my lifetime – including, towel rails, toilet toll holders, grab rails, and shower curtain rails/screens, all fixed into bathrooom tiles.

Hammer in the plug in flush, and you will be fine as long as you don’t use silly size screws, eg, sixes in reds, eights in browns. Yes occasionally a tile cracks, but it’s almost always either because you are too near the edge of it, or if not that, the tiler has left a void in the adhesive behind the tile which allows the tile to snap in two when pressure is applied as the bathroom fitting tightens up against it. I have never had a bath/shower screen which I’ve fitted “fall off” btw.

“Bodger ernie!”

I’m with Ernie on this one, I too have fixed more shower screens than I care to remember using his method.
On a bathroom refurb you cant always guarantee a stud right where the screen is to go esp if the new bath jumps up from a 700mm to 750mm or more.
Instead of a bead of silicone on the back of the frame try using one of the new polymer based adhesive/sealers such as Soverigns ‘Prostick’ or Geocels ‘The Works’ both of these stick like sh1t to a blanket.
Might be worth remembering most tilers are failed painters 🙂

skiaflex 221,can be found in white, used on caravans for sealing external fixings. 521 is used to stick car windscreens in.. Its a setting polyurethane adhesive, pretty thick stuff and will stick anything to anything. clean off excess with meths..
its watertight and should hold a showerscreen in place no probs.

“Bodger ernie!”

Well I don’t set the minimum standards or requirements, the client’s clerk of works and/or housebuilder/contractor and/or the NHBC does that. So I am hardly in a position to “bodge” even if I wanted to. And my shower screens don’t fall off the walls nor do I leave bathrooms littered with cracked tiles – I have never been contra charged 🙂