Cougar – Troy Queef is a spoof car reviewer article on the sniffpetrol website.

Aha! Poe’s Law in action.

BTW, to remind most thread readers who will have fallen asleep by now, the entire point of my original post was to suggest that Competition or Dynamic vehicle handling skills are not necessarily ‘useless’ om the road. (They may be rarely useful, but the one time you need em, you may be grateful of having them)

Yup quadratic not exponential.

Just keep it down on the public roads guys. The longer you live the more of the “tasty drivers” around you you’ll see get it wrong. Me and my co-drivers were lucky enough to walk away from me getting it wrong with bumps and bruises.

My introduction to the downsides of tasty driving started at four when I woke up under a car having been thrown through the rear window – a spin, car hit bank backwards, I landed on the road and the car went over me.

The neighbour’s daughter was killed on Monkspath’s mad mile by her boyfirend before the M42 cut it in half. A school friend hit a Jaguar head on overtaking, the Jag was travelling faster than he expected, three months in hospital. A driving enthusiast friend killed a guy on a pedestrain crossing. Two motorbiking mates killed their respective girlfriends without anyone else’s help in roadworks and on a bend. A friend who used to commute over a bridge too fast every day eventually hit the bridge and died. That’s just the ones close to me.

All that misery, all that grief, regret, rebuilding lives with shattered bodies and/or tortured minds.

Buy a mountain bike and rag that, do a track or rally day. Look after your fellow road users.

here’s a bonus picture of myself and Neil Briggs

you lot might be the world’s greatest drivers, but you know **** all about taking a photo 😆

er, given that i’m in the photo, i think it should be obvious i didn’t take it yeah??? 8)

Obviously, shame you didn’t think to say to the guy with the camera “er, sun behind you mate?” though. Team effort & all that. 🙂

But have you competed in a rally, Maxtorque? And how did you do?

You’re the engineer, the tech, and you had a lucky escape in Focus perhaps because you were at the legal limit on the autostrada and there was lots of space.

zilog6128
Obviously, shame you didn’t think to say to the guy with the camera “er, sun behind you mate?” though. Team effort & all that.

probably a lucky escape for you lot actually, i’m not exactly photogenic….. 😆

Is 2) just a long way of saying prone to lift off oversteer?

My mate worked on the development of the Focus. Not sure about the RS but he worked at Dutton and regularly used to tell me about trips to Italy driving cars about.

pondo – Member

Given that you don’t know how you saved it, how do you evaluate the relevance of your previous experience with regard to not throwing the RS off the island?

Given that he is human, how could he pick up a 1,000kg+ car and literally throw it off an island?
💡

I’ve got to say that while I disagree with him on some points (I think competition driving does give you some feel for if the car is unexpectedly sliding on, for example, an oil spill etc – you can then slow down), edukator makes a good argument.

There are far too many people of the opinion that a fast car makes a significant difference to their ability to avoid an accident, when the fact is it makes far more of a difference of their ability to get into an accident.

Car/motorbike accidents will kill you and all your mates and family dead if you’re not careful.

Edukator often makes sense. 😯

Then he goes and blows it by stating that those with experience of hooning off road are more likey to do it on road, except for himself who drives very carefully whilst appealing to his own authority of being an accomplished off-road racer which is, according to him, irrelevant to on-road driving.
😆

Luffs you really Ed.
xxx

Can anyone recommend a particular driving school or instructor near the south east (Hertfordshire) where I can get some training on how to handle a mid engine, rear wheel drive car properly. Learn what the things I really shouldn’t be doing and how to get my self out of tricky situations etc… I think it’d be a good idea to get some training before I unleash my self on a track day and just be more confident and comfortable driving the car.

BTW, to remind most thread readers who will have fallen asleep by now, the entire point of my original post was to suggest that Competition or Dynamic vehicle handling skills are not necessarily ‘useless’ om the road. (They may be rarely useful, but the one time you need em, you may be grateful of having them)

1.5 million miles under my belt and the need for Dynamic vehicle handling skills has never been needed. Just drive slower and with care.
I’m not whithout sin, in my late teens early twenties I rode m/cycles and drove cars like an idiot, but then I grew up. Some people it appears never do. Speed has one place and that’s of the road an on a track !!

taxi25 – Member

1.5 million miles under my belt

Nowhere near as many under mine, but I was able to keep my car on the black stuff when I lost the rear due to spilt fuel, unlike the two cars behind me!
Suitable speed played a great part, but as was knowing what to do, which came quite instinctively despite not practising beyond limit skills on a regular basis, which I know some of you will struggle to believe.
I should probably thank all those hours playing Gran Turismo! 🙂

Lost control twice on diesel spills, first time was terrifying and was lucky I never went into the island at the roundabout I was approaching (braking through a sharp bend at end of road) never mind another car. Second time I managed to keep it together and after a bit of tail wagging continued on my way.

Of course knowing how to do that beforehand would have been completely useless. Better people just know their place and expect everyjourney to be safe cosy and predictable.

taxi25
Just drive slower and with care.

The problem is, that to completely avoid any chance of a loss of control, you’ll have to drive so slowly, that your risk of having an accident increases, because you have become a hazard for other drivers.

For example, imo, to completely avoid any chance of loosing control on a motorway, following say a rapid lane change to miss, say, oh, an old truck tyre in the carriageway, i’d suggest that 30mph was the max you could travel at. That makes it almost certain that at some point you’ll get collected by another car or lorry who hasn’t correctly judged and reacted to your (slow) speed……

The problem is, that to completely avoid any chance of a loss of control, you’ll have to drive so slowly, that your risk of having an accident increases, because you have become a hazard for other drivers.

Not really, you can make due progress, just as you need to do to pass your driving test. Obviously stuff happens, but with judgment, reading the road and anticipating what other road users might do you almost never have to regain control of your car. Since my driving epiphany I’ve never skidded a car unintentionally unless it’s been on ice or snow, certainly not spun one. I’ve only really piled on the brakes about 4-5 times. I’m not a tasty driver unless getting from A to B safely is your only consideration. But I’ll do that day in day out year after year.

Edukator, why mention your Tri etc results?

Irrelevant bragging.

your risk of having an accident increases, because you have become a hazard for other drivers.

The devil’s advocate answer here of course is, “not if everyone else is doing it.”

Which then turns this into an “acceptable risk” question. Reducto ad absurdum, we should go back to the days of men with red flags walking in front of cars. Crossing the road has a risk. Every time I brew up I run the risk of scalding my hands. No more coffee for Cougar?

Speed differential – whether higher or lower than the average – is the bigger problem here.

Anecdotally: I drove down a two-lane motorway at the weekend and I saw some sort of incident ahead. Long story short, some old bloke in a Panda was doing 30mph in the outside lane. Cars were coming up behind him at NSL speeds, then seemingly trying to work out what to do. A couple moved to lane 1 and then the front one got a nosebleed about overtaking on the left. Eventually did so, then the Panda moved over between the two into a gap that wasn’t really there just as the second was about to undertake. How there wasn’t a collision I don’t know. Not because he was “forcing” others to drive dangerously but because he put other drivers in a position they weren’t expecting. Speed wasn’t the issue, relative speed was.

(Because I’m a Driving God™ (ie, not a complete idiot) I dropped right back until the chaos had unfolded and then passed safely.)

Tri-athalones help with car control.-obvs

Exactly, and in accepting that there is an acceptable level of risk you must also accept we should do what we can to mitigate against it.

The problem is, that to completely avoid any chance of a loss of control, you’ll have to drive so slowly, that your risk of having an accident increases, because you have become a hazard for other drivers.

There’s avoiding all risk, then there’s acceptable risk – I think the main reason threads like this bang on so long is because those lines differ a lot from person to person.

For example, imo, to completely avoid any chance of loosing control on a motorway, following say a rapid lane change to miss, say, oh, an old truck tyre in the carriageway, i’d suggest that 30mph was the max you could travel at. That makes it almost certain that at some point you’ll get collected by another car or lorry who hasn’t correctly judged and reacted to your (slow) speed……

There was a stranded vehicle on the hard shoulder of the M6 last week just north of jct 9, with the matrix signs advising you to use the hard shoulder. It was signed for 60, you could see something going on as traffic slowed and moved around the obstruction but it wasn’t a major issue – the people alongside you can see what’s happening as well.

I’m not saying it wasn’t dangerous, but I would say you don’t need to limit yourself to 30 on motorways in case of unexpected obstructions.

The answer to the OP’s post is airfeild track days.
With coned corners, not 6ft of wet grass , then steel armco.
Bruntingthorpe is huge. Go there with Book-a-track , RMA or MSE . You can use any car you like, hire a lid and get a lesson on how to drive quickly.
You will melt your tyes so take a spare set of alloys with road legals to get you home.
If you want a trackday special then MX5’s off good value. Integra type R if you want to play with the Scoobs and EVO’s. BMW M models always do well but are too heavy , but worth too much to strip out all the comfort gadgets.
Basic Skyline GTTS very solid, 2.5T RWD.
Even little hot hatches 1.9 205gti , Saxo VTS/VTR , 106GTI, 306GTi6 , Civic VTEC all go well. Binning all the interior , decent pads , fresh brake fluid , all helps.
BMW 330 nice entry level at a disposable price point , either weld up the diff or fit a slipper from a M3, then loose all the stuff you dont need, aircon, elec roof, rear elec windows, carpets , spare wheel, be quick then.

Lesons will make you quick . I used to instruct and do abit of drifting , just for fun. My mate ran an outfit called drift -demo and competed all aroud Europe in the D1 drift series in a 500bhp Soarer.
This teaches you very quickly how hold a car on the very edge of conrol, throttle steering etc . I guess this is what the OP means by being a ‘tasty’ driver.

You will very quickly find that if you think you are going quick on the road, after you have been motoring round a track road driving feels pedestrian in comparison. I used to a trackday every month ,and do miss it. It was over £200 each though ( shared car with a mate ) for a day out.

Exactly, and in accepting that there is an acceptable level of risk you must also accept we should do what we can to mitigate against it.

Of course.

Just throwing in another recommendation for Reg Local. I did a photoshoot with him last year (results of which are here: https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/honda-nsx-vs-mclaren-570gt/36450) and spent a good hour or so on the North York Moors getting some great advice that was relatable to driving at any speed on any road in any car. Top bloke with plenty of patience and some great stories.