Just making statements that are blatantly male cow pooh leaves you open to banter.
which ones ?? And if so, how do you know better ?
Bike Forum
[closed]
How much more effecient are SPD's compared to flats?
-
Posted 2 years ago #
-
To magnify the effects on an MTB, go ride on some ice and see which works best - Smooth or unsmooth
and are we to base our riding techniques on what works best on ice ? Surely holding one's breath is less than ideal in non-icy conditions ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
0%
for a start, you have to say efficiency of what
but for most of us, the limit to the power we can output is cardiovascular, not muscle power, so the pedals make no differencehaving seen someone fall off last week at 2mph and get a spiral fracture of the upper arm due to brand new cleats (which I'd seen him adjust at least 3 times) not releasing I'm dubious of the advantages of spuds!
I saw someone once get crapped on by a bird and it actually hit their head because he wasnt wearing a hat. Im never walking outside bare headed.and yet, with motocross bikes, singles, with the least smooth power delivery, work best ?
so relevant here.lets face fact here sfb . if you turn up to 90% of cycling race types wearing flats and telling people they are just as efficient as spds you will get some looks of distain and people will give you the bird as they go past you spinning smoothly up a hill whilst eating their banana with the other hand.
But if you dont race and dont mind having to put in more effort than clipped in riders fair play.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Lets face fact here sfb
I suggest it's unsupported conjecture...
if you turn up to 90% of cycling race types wearing flats
I would never try juvenile activities like racing when there is totty to ogle.
But if you dont race and dont mind having to put in more effort than clipped in riders fair play.
but no one has adduced any evidence for improved efficiency, only for allegedly smoother power delivery (which might actually be worse). In purely mechanical terms, provided one's foot doesn't slip off the pedal, the efficiency of power delivery is the same, and I don't think anyone knows if there is a measureable benefit to pulling up over pushing down harder, other than perhaps psychological.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Totty to ogle.
Fantastic. Girls love it when guys leer at them. It makes them just wanna jump straight onto your lap and say,' take me home with you, you flat pedalled leerer'.
I can see you would never change your opinion dude. Its all good.
Posted 2 years ago # -
clipped in?
you ****!Posted 2 years ago # -
Girls love it when guys leer at them. It makes them just wanna jump straight onto your lap and say,' take me home with you'...
they don't seem too put out:
click pic for biggerI can see you would never change your opinion dude.
I haven't anything to base an opinion on yet, just a lot of poorly founded guesses - hence my scepticism. As it happens, I don't care much about the answer, as spuds make my knees hurt, and I don't care who's in front of who... however, I'm fascinated by the things people will say to support their arguments
Posted 2 years ago # -
I used to find when I used spd's that if I was getting a bit of leg ache I could shift to pulling more, or pushing more depending on what felt less painful. Energy consumption and output might have been the same, but a leg's made up of more than one muscle.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ok if you wanna ride flat pedals and tell us you are just as efficient go ahead.
But for those of us in the real world clipped in is quicker, more efficient and for grown ups. Doesnt matter how good you are at pedalling or how big your leg muscles are.
Clipped in for SS , Cyclo cross , xc , downhill and freeride.
Flats for the BMX in the skatepark and maybe the odd DJ action to.
sam hill thinks you are a d i c k
Posted 2 years ago # -
sam hill thinks you are a d i c k
Oi! Don't pick on da kidz!! (ooops, I mean "grown ups" )
Posted 2 years ago # -
simonfbarnes - Member
I also love the mixture of Imperial and SI units
I think you will find that they are all standard units just a mix of metric and imerial.
I think that the stiff shoes make a big difference rather than they type of pedal but don't care what others use and only care about mine.
simonfbarnes - Member
To magnify the effects on an MTB, go ride on some ice and see which works best - Smooth or unsmooth
and are we to base our riding techniques on what works best on ice ? Surely holding one's breath is less than ideal in non-icy conditions
Smooth power transfer from the wheel to the ground is the most efficent and as ice has a very low coefficent of friction you have to be very smooth. The smooth delivery of power is why a car/motor bike etc slip their clutchs when pulling of as fast is possible if they didn't do this all they would do is spin the power away.
There is going to be very few if any instances on a bike where you would want or need to spin the rear wheel.Posted 2 years ago # -
To answer the original question - I'm sure I read a study on this using crank power meters, and it was something like 2% more efficient than spinning well on flat pedals, basically for maximum efficiency, there was no pulling up, just unweighting the upward pedals.
Having said that, on spds, it is very very easy to spin well compared to flats, as they pull your feet round nicely and teach you to move your feet in nice circles. But you can develop a very efficient spin on flats with practice.
Joe
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think you will find that they are all standard units just a mix of metric and imerial.
Système International d'unités is based on metres, kilos and seconds...
Smooth power transfer from the wheel to the ground is the most efficent
how do you know ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
and teach you to move your feet in nice circles
it would be a good trick to move you feet not in a circle while keeping them in contact with a pedal that was...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Smooth power transfer from the wheel to the ground is the most efficent
how do you know ?
Have you ever whitnessed a train where the regulator is opened to fast?
Have you ever seen an unbalanced washing machine spin up, thats a non smooth power delivery as it takes more power/effort to move it.
There are plenty of walking machine efforts that shake them selves to peices when they try to move.
The smooth delivery of power is why a car/motor bike etc slip their clutchs when pulling of as fast is possible if they didn't do this all they would do is spin the power away.
Mind you i think sfb would argue that black was white just becuase.
Posted 2 years ago # -
SFB wrote
my position is scepticism
your position is to try to disprove anything anyone says, ever
because it gives you a semiPosted 2 years ago # -
Have you ever whitnessed a train where the regulator is opened to fast?
Have you ever seen an unbalanced washing machine spin up, thats a non smooth power delivery as it takes more power/effort to move it.
There are plenty of walking machine efforts that shake them selves to peices when they try to move.but these are completely different circumstances, and not even steady state. It's not enough to say "It must be so", you have to say why, and offering a lot of irrelevant examples isn't it. I agree that wheelslip is inefficient, but it's perfectly possible to pedal unevenly without that happening, in fact I think you're deluding yourself if you think you CAN pedal smoothly - look at the diagram for evidence!
Mind you i think sfb would argue that black was white just becuase.
no, I was just remembering something I read about 30 years ago about the staccatto power delivery of a single cylinder engine being better for grip off road. Of course, that may have been apocryphal too...
I freely admit I don't know the answer, but neither am I pretending I do while advancing specious justifications.
your position is to try to disprove anything anyone says, ever
I don't need to disprove things wot ent proved.
also traction engines and washing machines are highly atypical off road vehicles
Posted 2 years ago # -
QED
Posted 2 years ago # -
perfectly possible to pedal unevenly without that happening, in fact I think you're deluding yourself if you think you CAN pedal smoothly - look at the diagram for evidence!
I know i can pedal smoothly other wise my rear suspension bobs up and down if i mash the pedals round whilst it mat not be perfect it is smooth.
SO for a mtb example just try riding lumpy and watch even your fork bounce. This bounce is energy that is being used in your forks rather that to make you go forwards. You can even feel this on a ridged bike as the tyres will deform.Posted 2 years ago # -
I know i can pedal smoothly other wise my rear suspension bobs up and down
but isn't that more to do with the movement of the body than the feet ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bees should not be able to fly they said. for years and years. Yet they could right in front of our eyes. No argument. Just sight.
Open your eyes and take those blinkers off.
dasnut - go suck sam hill off.
And sbf, who the hell are those two moose pigs you put on this thread?
You need to ride with some hot chicks .
Posted 2 years ago # -
simonfbarnes - Member
I know i can pedal smoothly other wise my rear suspension bobs up and down
but isn't that more to do with the movement of the body than the feet ?
if you want to go that why then riding in ridged spd shoes your feet dont move your legs do.Posted 2 years ago # -
Open your eyes and take those blinkers off.
look at the diagram, the torque varies widely with the angle - in order to smooth it out you'd have to continuously vary the force with the angle to keep it the same.
And sbf, who the hell are those two moose pigs you put on this thread?
I shall tell them your opinion tomorrow, pretty boy...
if you want to go that why then riding in ridged spd shoes your feet dont move your legs do.
uh, if your feet don't move relative to the bike then neither would the pedals!
Posted 2 years ago # -
How much more efficient? About this much <------------------------->
SFB - it is so obvious to anyone who uses spds - the muscle that lifts my toe has developed significantly since I stated using spds. If you are using more muscles yo either put out more power - or the same power at a lower loading each muscle.
It makes a significant and easily noticed difference
Posted 2 years ago # -
If you are using more muscles yo either put out more power - or the same power at a lower loading each muscle.
except the limit once immediate glycogen stores are depleted is your metabolic rate, not your muscular power.
Posted 2 years ago # -
if you want to go that why then riding in ridged spd shoes your feet dont move your legs do.
uh, if your feet don't move relative to the bike then neither would the pedals!
Your feet don't move relative to the pedals the pedals rotate about an axis.
Lots of bits of your body are moving relative to the bike but your feet dont do anything other than go around and around. Your ankles move both relative to the bike and your body as do your legs this is the bit that you have to smooth out to get effficent energy transferotherwise you are just wasting it.Posted 2 years ago # -
but your feet dont do anything other than go around and around
I'm not sure where this is going - do you mean in that case that the pedals and feet are irrelevant ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
simonfbarnes - Member
but your feet dont do anything other than go around and around
I'm not sure where this is going - do you mean in that case that the pedals and feet are irrelevant ?
They are largly in terms of a smooth delivery. The stiffness of the sole of the shoe will have much more of an impact on effecent energy transfer and hence road riders and xc racers having stiff soles. Downhillers have a slightly different set of priorites and are not looking for just peadling effeciency which is why they chose to use differnt type of shoe.Posted 2 years ago # -
All of this is irrelevant for the average rider.
If the pedal you prefer gets you where you want to go and provides the confidence to let you ride the way you want to, it's already as efficient as it needs to be.Posted 2 years ago # -
The stiffness of the sole of the shoe will have much more of an impact on effecent energy transfer
what tosh! If there were significant efficiency loss in the shoe it would heat up
it's already as efficient as it needs to be.
which is why I said 0% at the start
Posted 2 years ago # -
"Having said that, on spds, it is very very easy to spin well compared to flats, as they pull your feet round nicely and teach you to move your feet in nice circles. But you can develop a very efficient spin on flats with practice."
That's the argument I support.
I do bounce a little bit on flats when downhilling my HT, but only because I get stiff and lazy in the legs.
BTW. Black is not White; White is Black.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yep, I got your point from the start SFB.
Unless you're an elite athlete, it makes no difference at all.
Extracting maximum performance to win nothing produces a bigger loser.Posted 2 years ago # -
what tosh! If there were significant efficiency loss in the shoe it would heat up
it will heat up YOU just wouldn't notice it happening.
I'm now feed up of talking to a argumentative sod like you who will just stick to his tiny little point of view and not accept anything with out arguing even TJ will accept things.
Oh and the op doesn't ask about how efficent they are for the general rider but just how efficent they are.Posted 1 year ago # -
I'll repeat for those of you who missed it.
clipped in?
you ****!specially for burmaboy
and for everyone, don't get so uptight, its only bike riding!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I have only read the first page, so sorry if that have already been said, but you don't pull up... Or if you do, well learn to pedal correctly. Pedalling is a circular motion. And obviously spd's allow you to provide continuous power through the circle.
As for the "how much efficiency do I gain", well it's going to depend. But if your mtbing doesn't involve cycling around a muddy field with no camel back and a flashy lycra shorts, you'll be surprise that there is much more things you can do to improve your efficiency than just riding spd's (getting a upy downy seat post to start with).Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
This topic has been closed to new replies.
