I'm off the bike; again!
This time I've strained the left leg Lat quad where it ties into its tendon.
I imagine I'll be off the bike for 2 months(?).

I visited the physio and she has given me a couple of quad stretching exercises (lying on my front, on my R leg, I can bring my heel to my buttock but on my L side I'm 6-8 inches away) and also one lunge-style for my hip flexors (my R h-f muscle is very tight, not so the left).

But how long do I hold the max flex with these exercises? I was told by a.n.other physio more than 20 seconds was a waste of time.

I avoid all injuries by refusing to learn any medical terms whatsoever. It's always the people that know the names of muscles and whatnot that end up injured.

As my grandmother said about wheelchairs: "Think it, and you're in it".

Healthy ignorance is bliss.

EDIT: I fulfilled the First Law of forum posts by making only an oblique reference to the OP's question so I'd better fulfil the Second Law by offering uninformed and quite possibly dangerous advice, viz: I met this bloke at a race and he was quite fast (faster than me anyway) so he obviously knew what he was on about and he told me to stretch until it really, really hurt and then stretch a bit more. Apparently if you can still stand up you haven't stretched hard enough.

DHW – if you have nothing to contribute, please, fulfil your daily duties for your village elsewhere.
Edit: Have you been drinking?

Hic!

I think you're one of the "worried well". There's basically nothing wrong with you is there?

Anyway, you've sought professional by visiting a real-life physio (or is that two physios – I'm not sure) and now you're asking on An Internet Forum.

What did you expect?

But how long do I hold the max flex with these exercises? I was told by a.n.other physio more than 20 seconds was a waste of time.

That's what I've heard. Little & often too – not just twice a day.

I visited the physio and she has given me a couple of quad stretching exercises …But how long do I hold the max flex with these exercises? I was told by a.n.other physio more than 20 seconds was a waste of time.

What makes you think the unwashed STW collective are going to know better than a qualified physio?

Unless we have any unwashed STW physios here of course.

go and get professional advice. Stretching is a bit controversial anyway.

Some say you need to hold over 30 secs for the muscle to accept it's being stretched

DWH is wrong, ive hurt a bit of my leg/ankle/foot that i have no idea what its called.

I've been to the physio (more than one in the business) and had two different opinions.
Last year I stretched for hours each week and in the long run, it seemed to make no difference at all, so I too am in TJ's camp here.

EDIT: Have you ever noticed: DWH has never once started a thread here on this forum? Now that takes some doing & tells us all we really need to know!

What I have suggested has worked for me, but just for recovery, not injuries as such.

The other issue I have with stretching is if you do it before a ride (ie: cold) and not post ride (warmed muscle groups). last year I was left wondering if this makes the biggest difference as I seemed to make little head-way.

Have you any links TJ on your comment that it's "controversial anyway" ?

In the past swimming has been a much more effective way of easing muscle pain than stretching – for me anyway

20 seconds is right but there is no proven science but 20 seconds and the muscle will know it's being stretched ! Stretching should be just gentle too – don't over stretch or jerk (not 'carry on' jokes please.

Ti – no links. I bet you could find some tho.

The other issue I have with stretching is if you do it before a ride (ie: cold) and not post ride (warmed muscle groups). last year I was left wondering if this makes the biggest difference as I seemed to make little head-way.

Stretching is meant to precent shortening of muscles/tendons that cycling would otherwise create, seems obvious that it is better to stretch after cycling than before. I think there has been research that shows stretching before has no benefit.

SOOBalias – Ah, you've hurt it, but I'll bet it's not stopped you riding has it? Trust me, as soon as you find out what it's called you're doomed.

Swimmimg would be a great tonic as I'm climbing the walls here having gone from 12-15hrs training a week to nothing!

Problem is I smashed the insde of my AC joint in a fall (the clavicle should have snapped but it inpacted into the joint instead).

TJ – aren't you rather falling foul of your comments elsewhere on STW about saying one thing and not providing any links / evidence to support your words? I was rather hoping you might have some links to support your comments as I'm keen to learn more.

Trust me

Errm. No, not one jot!

TJ is right, thinking on stretching changes pretty regularly. My preference is Bob Anderson's book Stretching, nice and clear and fairly common sense. Alternatively have a look at peak performance online for an up to date (i.e. changes every month) look at all aspects of sports science

"Clavicle" and "AC joint" – Brilliant, that's another two!

Did you smash your whatever by falling off the wall you were climbing?

I'm getting confused with all your injuries, but keep 'em coming though. I'm loving phrases like "should have snapped but it impacted into the joint".

Just so long as I remain completely ignorant about what you're talking about I'm sure I'll be totally injury free. It's a sort of 'placebo voodoo' thing 😉

My physio told me to stretch for 5 minutes, either in one stretch if I felt like it or 10 30 second stretches throughout the day (so usualy 3 x 3 x 30-40seconds).

+1 for Bob Anderson's book.

Why not just follow your physio's advice though.

Thanks.
Physio's advice differs and had no lasting effect from 2009.

All references are welcomed and I'll do some reading and see what can be done about it.
Utra sound at the physio's might help but I suspect rest will no doubt solve it in the end, but it's a bu££er to have now cancelled all the summer's events (Merida, Bonty 24 pairs (we were gunning for a top 5 place), Montane Kielder etc).

In my experience, and from what various physios / PTI's have told me, you must stretch for at least 20 seconds but it's not worth stretching for much more than this if for post work-out stretching. For rehabilitation, 30 seconds is better. More than this and it is not good for the elasticity of the tendons / ligaments, which could lead to increased tendency to these sorts of injuries. Apparently. For sure, you must never stretch so much that it hurts.

Bonty 24 pairs (we were gunning for a top 5 place),

Really, I don't think you mentioned it before. You must be really, really quick 😉

Ti29er – Member

TJ – aren't you rather falling foul of your comments elsewhere on STW about saying one thing and not providing any links / evidence to support your words? I was rather hoping you might have some links to support your comments as I'm keen to learn more.

I have been told this by professionals I trust. I believe it to be true. I don't have any other evidence to back it up and am prepared to say so hence my advice to you was to get professional advice.

Well some people on here must stretch quite a lot, even for stw some of these comments suggest that they are able to get up their owna…..

+1 for Ti29er seeking professional help.

(Chortle!)

My cat stretches for about 2-3 seconds, but then it's never read any peer-reviewed papers on the subject.
What an idiot.

Luckily your cat doesn't know the name of any of it's muscles so no matter how long or short it's stretches are it's quite safe from injury.

First of all never stretch cold muscles, warm up for about 10 min's. Then stretch for 10-20 sec's. After your bike ride, do some intense stretching. Holding your stretches for 20-40sec's. The more you stretch the suppler you will be and the less chance of injury. To do a stretch just hold it for 10 sec's until the feeling go's off a bit then stretch a little bit more, hold for 10 sec's and so on. If you stretch, it helps to get rid of lactic acid build up and will help to reduce stiffness the next day.

My physio tells me not to stretch cold muscles – warm them up a bit first – and to stretch them for 20 to 30 seconds in sets of 4 or 5 stretches with 20 to 30 seconds recovery. So I do one leg, then the other, then back to the first.

And you never ballistic stretch, just constant pull on the muscle, as bouncing, kicking, etc, can overextend the muscle and cause damage.

The more you stretch the suppler you will be and the less chance of injury.

I've never quite got that with respect to activities such as cycling where the range of motion is pretty limited in the first place.

So far as I'm aware, there's some controversy over whether stretching has any magical properties as part of a warm-up or cool down. Personally, I'm not convinced of the need to stretch before pedaling a bike or going for a steady run – provided you get a few minutes of easy effort in at the outset before your workrate goes up.

On the other hand, regular stretching to improve a chronic lack of flexibility would seem like a good idea and could be the difference between picking up injuries and not. It's just nothing to do with either warming up or cooling down.

I got prescribed quad stretches by a physio to cure knee pain that was making walking downstairs quite a challenge. All good now and running and cycling pain free. And after several weeks of calf stretches, I can now do squats in the gym with decent form – so there are indirect benefits too.

My physio's advice, to improve flexibility, was to hold a stretch for 20 – 30 seconds and to repeat several times a day.

You can "future-proof" your stretching by doing the exact opposite of today's received wisdom. When the next lot of research comes out you'll find that you were doing exactly the right thing – until it all flips round again.

It's like butter: First it was OK, then it gave you a heart-attack and margarine was top dog, and now margarine is full of something or other that leads to God knows what unpleasantness. Luckily, whatever the health benefits it's always been really tasty – especially on toast.

So I think if you have some hot-buttered toast before stretching you'll be OK.

Wouldnt bother with pre ride stretching:

Warm-up or stretch as preparation for sprint performance?
Author(s): Stewart M., Adams R., Alonso A., Van Koesveld B., Campbell S.

Citation: Journal of Science and Medicine in Sport, December 2007, vol./is. 10/6(403-410), 1440-2440 (Dec 2007)

Publication Date: December 2007

Abstract: Warm-up and stretching are widely used as techniques in preparation for intense physical activity, yet there is little information available to compare their effectiveness in relation to athletic performance. Fourteen elite Under-19 year old rugby league footballers undertook each of four preparation protocols (no preparation, stretching only, warm-up only, warm-up and stretching) in four successive testing sessions. Protocols were randomly allocated to players in a counterbalanced design so that each type of preparation occurred equally on each day of testing. During each session, athletes performed three solo sprint trials at maximum speed. Sprints were of 40-m distance and were electronically timed with wind speed and direction recorded. Preparation involving warm-up resulted in significantly faster sprint times compared to preparations having no warm-up, with a diminishing effect over the three trials. On the first trial, warm-up resulted in a mean advantage of 0.97 m over 40 m. Stretching resulted in a mean disadvantage of 0.18 m on the first trial, and no significant effect overall despite significant wind assistance. Warm-up was effective at improving immediate sprint performance, whereas an equivalent duration of lower limb stretching had no effect.

Badly wired: Team Heather Mills 3/4 of the way down the pdf.10th last year and one lap was 5hrs (someone fell asleep at 3am).

So top 5 was on the cards for sure in 2010. 15th in category in the UK 24hr solo champs: so at least I manged one event before it all went south!

How is running a 40m sprint in rugby gear comparable to riding 2 hours through twisty singletrack?

I like a bit of a stretch before I get on that jumps and that. Always feel a bit more flexible afterwards.

Why do you need to tell us your results? Does it have any bearing on stretching? 😉

How is running a 40m sprint in rugby gear comparable to riding 2 hours through twisty singletrack?

I like a bit of a stretch before I get on that jumps and that. Always feel a bit more flexible afterwards.

The argument against static stretching before sport and physical activity
Author(s): Kovacs M.S.

Citation: Athletic Therapy Today, May 2006, vol./is. 11/3(6-8), 1078-7895 (May 2006)

Publication Date: May 2006

Abstract: Static stretching has been used as a warm-up activity for decades, without any credible research to support its benefits for performance or injury prevention. Static stretching before activity reduces performance in strength, speed, and power activities. Static stretching before activity does not appear to reduce injury.