I have blown up the bottom of my cars engine. I have the possibility of buying a 'short' engine which should contain all the bits I need. In theory I just take my engine out, swap over the top bits and put it back in.

How hard can it be?

I am asking on a bike forum rather than a car forum because car forums are full of people who swap engines all the time and think everything is easy. I want an answer from 'normal'* people.

*I don't normally consider STW people normal but in this context they probably are.

You'll probably need a haynes manual, I reckon it'll be a four spanner job.

me n a mate did a 200sx 1.8 turbo – using a white sheet and laying shit out as it came off using an old haynes manual which told you how to take engine to bits …

we were replacing big end bearings though. Did cock up the timing on replacement. Got it 180 degrees out – or rather my mate did i was adament it was out – took it to the garage as he didnt want to risk playing and it was out by 180 – he put a line on it and we then lined it up wrong

we managed to borrow the tools/engine hoist though & the car was only 700 quid !

given the fact its your teg – not worth getting the short engine and paying someone to do it ?

Is this for your fancy high revving honda? I am guessing but would guess not straightforward at all given the complexity of the engine

If you need to ask, I would say get a professional to do it. 🙂

I am guessing but would guess not straightforward at all given the complexity of the engine

Is the 'fancy' bit of that engine not the top end though?

Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhh….

How long is a piece of string and how much patience do you have?

So, speaking as someone who can remove and strip aircooled VW engines, and has done headgaskets and changed a gearbox etc –>

I'd say you'll need to be a competant and confident mechanic for a start.
You'll need more tools than you think (Trolley jack/hoist to lift the engine, decent tourque wrench, probably some wierd tools like Torx bits and the like, and you won't know until you come across it!) And you'll need to know how to use them!
You might get siezed bolts and snapped studs too, so you'll need to know how to fix that. And you'll need parts like gaskets, seals and a new cambelt.
You'll need to know one end of an engine from another, how to set up a timing belt (Or chain!) and stuff like that.
At the end of the day, it's only a "nut and bolt job" but you need to not get stressed when your garage is full of parts which MUST GO BACK exactly right, and you'll need to know when to walk away for the day when it goes wrong. And something WILL go wrong……Believe me!

If I had the time, I'd have a shot, just for the satisfaction of doing it but don't underestimate the job or overestimate yourself! 😀

should maybe add that both me and my mate know our way from one end of spanner to other albe it in different industrys !

PP has spoken. I will listen.

Anyone want to buy an Integra Type R with a **** engine? I can source you a replacement shirt engine for £500. it's only a "nut and bolt job" to swap the bits over.

Look into it first mate! It might not be that expensive to get it done professionally….

Thinking out loud –

The gearbox will come out with the engine and will need swapping over, so you might need a clutch alignmet tool, and youd be silly not to swap the clutch at the same time anyway. You've gotta disconnect the exhaust, inlet manifold, gear linkages, driveshafts, air filter and all the electrics (Label them so you know where they go) How much space is in the engine bay? Not a lot I imagine?! That's could make access difficult, so you'll probably have to get the car up in the air a couple of feet (Securely and safely) to get underneath (Ramps and axle stands needed)
The head bolts will probably be 'singe use' items and will need replacing, and hope they aren't tucked under the camshafts or the cams will have to come out of the head (V-tec? Ouch! Probably not I hope!)

Sorry, Once I get going I spout all manner of crap like this, not trying to scare you! 🙂

PP – the Honda dealer quoted 10 – 11 hours to swap a replacement engine in as 15+ for a rebuild.

Apparently a lot of the replacement engines are cut out of crashed cars so there is quite a lot of bits need swapping about.

sv – Member

"I am guessing but would guess not straightforward at all given the complexity of the engine"

Is the 'fancy' bit of that engine not the top end though?

With a short engine does he not have to take the top end off the old engine and put it on the new one?

"assembly is the reverse of disassembly" is all you need to know. 😆

Is there not a jap car specialist place in soton? It would be a fair bit cheaper than honda for labour costs.

certainly wouldnt be going to a dealer – bit like taking your bike to evans after its done the puffer !

licence for them to print money

Haynes gags (sorry but better than cut and pasting them here, right?: http://www.retro-renault.com/archive/viewtopic.php?p=29476&sid=c9d2f84f479484362b929b65e60a9104

I've swapped and re-built motorbike engines which is quite straight-forward, but most parts of a car are less accessible and many are difficult to reach unless you have small hands. In my experience, expect a lot of knuckle-skinning.

If I was doing it, I'd first read the manual thoroughly and note any 'special tools' that will be required.

I'd pay attention to exactly which fasteners and gaskets will definitely (and the ones that may) need replacing.

I'd recruit a capable assistant & find myself a nice, wide covered area to work in. A gazebo tent will do in the absence of a garage. Unless you have a few friends to help, you'll need a hoist.

I'd start very early on a Saturday morning and work through the weekend until it is finished.

Buy a box of those thin latex gloves.

ps. It will help if you have alternative transport for fetching various tools and fasteners that you WILL discover that you need part-way through….

Any ideas what caused it to go pop in the first place?
Oil pump failure?
Is there any possibility of top end damage as a result of the bottom going?
Hmm, given the sort of revs the V Tec Intergra engines can do, i'd want to make sure EVERYTHING was spot on. How much for a new or decent engine? I wonder if its going to work out much cheaper to do a bottom end replacement by the time you factor in labour charges?

I'd start very early on a Saturday morning and work through the weekend until it is finished.

from our experiance id bag and label stuff as it comes off and sequentially number it as it comes off …. sods law is if its your first time it wont go together in a weekend !- but we were working on near 20 years of rust !

pps. Take frequent photos as an 'aide memoire' ….and for the photoblog

Personally I'd call round circa 10 specialists and ask this question first:

1. Have you done this before? Yes? Move onto next question
2. Have you done this to my engine/type? Yes.

3. Ok give me a price. Then factor in transporting your car to that garage.

I hate garages who say 'yeah we could do that' (and in essence learn as they go along/train at your expense.

I have decide the job is beyond my ability. I know my limitations and mechanical aptitude is one of the big ones.

BigYin – What blew the engine? Stupid owner left the oil run low and then drove very fast around a sharp bend at 8,500rpm. Totally my own fault which doesn't make me feel any better.

Personally I'd look for a complete drivechain/front subframe/engine and swap the lot.

You are likely to have to drop the whole front anyway to get access to the engine and replacing the block does not sort out the crud that is likely to have circulated to the head after whatever failed.

Cars today are designed to be assembled quickly generally as a set of sub assemblies that can easily assembled preferrably by robots. After servicing is not given much thought apart from consumable items.

The initial phone conversations are crucial. Ive seen a few threads on Pistonheads where its become a saga/ongoing project with an open-ended wallet as the punter starts to realise the garage said 'yes we can do' to get the business but really wasnt that clued-up on the engine/type of work and learnt and struggled as they went along racking up 'hours'…

I can recommend my mechanic in Bucks.

One of my DIS packs went on my old V6 Omega. I popped in to see him and he was half way through the job (the DIS packs sit atop the gear box and are only accessable through either dropping the entire lot or taking off the top-end and getting in from the front).

Imagine the scene, there were bits of engine everywhere, with both heads off. "Will it be ready for tomorrow", I ask.

"Dunno", says he "haven't got to a point where we can get the packs out"

"Oh, what else is there to do", says I

"Dunno, never done it before"…

He had no manual either, so I just walked away.

But all was fixed by next day, and tbh I would trust him with anything (including my current V8).

BBB Thats a big DOH! Sometimes sh*t happens, feeling your pain though.
Chances are there could be other undetected damage if the pump has "run dry" in the top end too, couldn't there?

Does this short engine come with crank & pistons installed or do you just get a kit ? Swapping bits once the engine is out is straightforward enough, but if your going to be into building a bottom end up I wouldnt bother unless its a restoration jobbie/for keeps long term. Putting pistons in, shells, crank etc is ok on a nice spotlessly clean block, with all the right tools.
Dont underestimate how difficult it is to work on a block on the garage floor, they're usually bloody heavy filthy things to work on. Every time you crack a gasket bits of shite fall in etc. That said, if you fully clean the old one & the engine bay before it comes out, lay the thing out on the floor. Plenty of wood to prop it up, lots of decent light, tools all laid out, good supply of tea & biccies & its actually quite enjopyable if your that way inclined. It is a big job, not technically difficult but pretty involved. I dropped the sump off our old VVTi Corolla a few years back & to be honest, given all the fancy VVTi stuff going on up the top end, the bottom end was much the same as any other car I've tinkered with.

He was on about swapping the old head onto a new short engine, so there would be no re-building of the bottom end.

It would probably be better to just buy a replacement engine, swap it over and then sell the old top-end and any other bits that are still use-able.

Helped a mate take the lump out of his TVR griffith after he cracked a piston bore. That was a straight remove, ship off to have it rebored, shove back, and that was pretty involved enough for me.

BigBikeBash – Member

I have decide the job is beyond my ability. I know my limitations and mechanical aptitude is one of the big ones.

Probably a good thing that you thought about it then!

join an owners club and get them to recommend either a forum member to do it cheap or a honda specialist ( not honda itself)?/

Just a thought.

Aristotle – it could have been as easy as undoing the 8 bolts at the top of my old engine, lifting the top off, putting it on the new engine and doing up the 8 bolts. That is why I asked STW, the source of all knowledge.

I hate garages who say 'yeah we could do that' (and in essence learn as they go along/train at your expense.

As with br, I take the view that a decent mechanic can figure out just about anything. Manuals and other info are available for just about everything (via autodata or similar) and as long as they have the attitude of getting it done right, rather than bodging it to get it finished, that counts far more for me than having done that exact job before on that model.

If you have not done it to simlpe old engine, like a mini old escort or similar, then I rekon doing the Honda multi valve jobbie with all modern kit in the way is probably a bit too much to bite off…

I could do the old stuff but would baulk at anything more complex myself, though I rekon I could get there in the end!!

As with br, I take the view that a decent mechanic can figure out just about anything.

That's true. But I'd sooner not be the one paying for the mechanic's time as he takes rather longer than he should because he's learning on the job.

I take the view that a decent mechanic can figure out just about anything

How do you know him/her from Eve though if you are calling around/making enquiries?

I know a bloody good Subaru mechanic who pisses on a great height on the Subaru 'main dealer' tech's, he also doesn't charge their rampant rates either. The only thing they do share/have in common is they all work from thread-bare showrooms/workshops.