I stick to my principles.
I came across some old guy on the ground bleeding sans helmet on one of the mushroom bits at GT.I gave him a brief lecture/tirade on the benefits of helmet hood and left him.
Don’t think it was TJ though-that would have been double sweet.

I keep all my cracked, dented, snapped and battered pisspots on the wall in the bike cupboard.

Always, always, always inspires a quick “just put the thing on”. A photograph of said helmets will be trotted out next time I visit my nieces & nephews, put the whole “too cool for school” chat to bed.

I’d never judge a stranger for their choices nor feel uncomfortable riding with a lidless person. No less comfortable than watching that BMX lot anyway.

Unless you’re deaf you bloody well know about it. Come on a ride with me, I’ll let you know about it. My favourite jibes include:

“elf n safety geek”

“mushroom head”

“soft lad”

“nob head”

“dick head”

“idiot”

Nice mocking people for choosing to wear some PPE, must make you feel all big inside

All I know is that I’ve busted 2 helmets by hitting my head off things (a wooden barrier in Wark Forest & a tree in Glentress) Although there’s no proof or evidence that no (further) harm would’ve come to my braincell if I hadn’t been wearing a lid…..I’ll keep wearing one thanks.

A mate of mine used to say, ‘your’e not coming on a ride with me without a helmet, you might spoil my ride’

I stick to my principles.
I came across some old guy on the ground bleeding sans helmet on one of the mushroom bits at GT.I gave him a brief lecture/tirade on the benefits of helmet hood and left him.
Don’t think it was TJ though-that would have been double sweet.

Wow.

Remember folks, just because it’s not funny doesn’t mean the person isn’t trying to make a joke.

I’ve written off 4 helemts in crashes*, now I won’t say any of them saved my life because TJ will demand peer reviewed double blind trials when I repeat the crashes until I either die or prove myself incorrect.

However, seeing as they made a mess of the rather tough helmets, I’ll wear one just to protect from the soft tissue damage, if it keeps the grey matter intact inside it’s crispy shell it’s a bonus.

* 3 were on relatively smooth surfaces, one was head first onto the pointy bit of a pointy rock, I’d take my chances on the smoother falls, but I definitely suspect the spikey rock would have won in a fight with my skull.

Back on the OP, I feel uneasy riding with people who don’t wear helemts. It’s their choice, but I’d feel guilty if I didn’t tell them to and they crashed and suffered a head injury. If they still didn’t wear one I’d exercise my freedom of choice and not ride with them.

Plenty of nice fit healthy organ donors for us olduns bags a nice young liver please.

Just wondering do people also unleash their scorn/judgement on those who wear a helmet, but ride ‘recklessly’ – ie go faster than you think is reasonable, or hit drops/jumps that you think are sketchy or that seem at the limit of their skill level?

I suspect someone like that is in more danger of hurting themselves than someone not wearing a helmet riding slowly and within their limits. The idea that helmet automatically = safe and no helmet = unsafe is pretty irrational.

Plenty of nice fit healthy organ donors for us olduns bags a nice young liver please.

phwooaaarr, yes please

when I was 20 my Uncle desperately needed a kidney transplant.. I was a good match but he declined my offer telling me that he’d rather take his chances than use my shagged out pickled offal..

The idea that helmet automatically = safe and no helmet = unsafe is pretty irrational.

It is and is why most people never make that judgement.

Helmet = Some (Lots-a bit) of protection to the brain in the event of an accident

Accident = An accident or mishap is an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance, often with lack of intention or necessity. (Wikipedia)

Everyone know that immortality or protection from any harm either comes from drinking from the holy grail (Indiana Jones) or insects and microwave incidents (Spinderman etc) or coming from a different planet (Suerman I,II,III & IV)

Even when riding within your limits an accident can occur (other road users, small animals in the forest or a mechanical failure.)

Even when riding within your limits an accident can occur (other road users, small animals in the forest or a mechanical failure.)

But my point is there don’t tend to be moral judgements applied to people who don’t ride within their limits or who take ‘undue risks’ biking (in fact it’s generally applauded), but there are to those who don’t wear a helmet. Peoples’ attitudes to risk are often quite irrational so let’s not be so judgemental.

FWIW I (almost) always wear a helmet and think its a bit daft not to, but would never refuse to ride with/lecture someone who didn’t.

Grum and TJ are quite right. I have no idea what Mike just said. I have owned exactly five helmets in my life and have broken none of them, despite some fairly major crashes over 35 years on two wheels with no stabilisers (I’m 39. My first four years included trikes, scooters and stabilisers).

My first was a tiny construction workers’ helmet in bright orange. I wore it whilst travelling in the basket of my mum’s BSA ladys’ shopper. I later progressed to a child seat, but the helmet remained the same.

Without listing them all in chronological order, I replaced my Specialized Mountain Man (really, that is what it’s called) with a decent Giro helmet after nearly a decade of use a few years ago.

I’ll happily ride without one up until the point where I don’t feel comfortable – this is usually in traffic, rather than wheels in the air. But the point is, it’s my choice. I don’t give a fig if you’d rather not ride with me.

I have no idea what Mike just said.

Fair enough, general point is that accidents can happen. There are more factors to consider than “I never push it if i’m not wearing a lid” (or the opposite)

I also don’t subscribe to the helmets create magic forcefield idea either

Maybe not a magic forcefield, but I definitely feel less venerable when wearing a helmet.
Tend to ride a lot of stuff I’d “give it a miss” otherwise.

I just put on my cloak of invincibility, then shred the trails safe in the knowledge that no tree, rock, or root can hurt me or my feelings…..

DrP

Years ago an asian lad turned up on a nasty old Trek xc hardtail…tracksuit bottoms no helmet etc and was about to attempt a fairly big drop that some of the riders had done and were milling around. I honestly thought he was going to die so gave him my helmet after I insisted…..he landed it smoothly..

It’s no biggy for me, but I always think about the unexpected when I see a rider without one.
Like the driver hitting you from behind at 60mph, or the hanging branch that wasn’t there last week?

Someone wanted to use my old lid as an example of what could happen when your head hits the ground, but when he saw it he thought it was too graphic.

Any of you had experience of this type of thing and how did you deal with it

I usually accept that it’s none of my business.

Those that have read the original post and my follow up posts will have noticed that I have made no judgements about this blokes sanity, wisdom or morals….I simply said that I, personally, would prefer not to ride with someone who isn’t wearing a helmet. Surely, if he has a choice not to wear a helmet then I have a choice about who I ride with. I was looking for ideas on how people would deal with explaining this personal choice to the lidless man.

So, to be clear, again, I don’t care if he or you or anyone else rides without a lid and would rather you had that choice….but I make a choice not to ride with people who don’t wear one. I was just looking for ideas on how to explain my choice without being a lecturing idiot….a concern some of you, that haven’t read the OP, don’t have.

Was worth a try I guess….have fun!

I wouldn’t want him riding with me.

I was looking for ideas on how people would deal with explaining this personal choice to the lidless man.

I’d probably have made some friendly/jokey remark initially, then depending on the reaction would decide whether to bother discussing any further.

I expect the guy was as well versed as STWers on the helmet debate so any comments would be like water off a ducks back.

You’re far more likely to injure an arm, leg, ribs or collar bone if you crash.

However, I never wear any kind of body armour beyond a helmet.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, MTBing is risky but not inherently dangerous.

The main reason I wear a helmet is because of the ‘what if’ factor, and the implications for my family if the worst should happen.

However, I realise I could still be very seriously injured in other ways other than my head with the same implications for my family.

Yes, the logic is flawed 😕

I also feel naked riding without a helmet.

But I also feel naked riding without glasses, gloves or camelbak 😕

Ah well, each to their own …

I don’t know how to deal with it,if so,I will just tell him is dangerous that he should know.

I was just looking for ideas on how to explain my choice without being a lecturing idiot….

It’s unfortunate that helmet threads are so polarizing that the actual question gets lost in the resulting melee.

With regard to your o/p, it’s what your happy doing and your not obligated to ride with someone you don’t know if you’re not happy with them for whatever reason. I have clubmates I won’t go on club runs with as they are dangerous and people I won’t ride fast through and off with as again they are dangerous – what do i do if questioned i explain why I don’t like riding with them and it’s up to them to deal with it. In common with the h****t issue if you explain your misgivings politely and not state that they are facts just your concerns that’s all you can do, they may accept it they may not (and I think your concern is probably easier to take on board than being told you can’t ride in a straight line on a road). I’m not paid to guide people around on road or off and my cycling time is limited through work like most peoples, so if I don’t want to ride with someone I won’t.

Like the motorbike slogan of the 80’s ….
Helmet laws – let those who ride decide……..

I think I’d be more annoyed if someone (helmeted or not) joined me and my mate on ride without having the courtesy to ask first; you don’t say whether he did or not so I’ve assumed he didn’t.

First up it is discourteous as i said, and secondly you might well be discussing stuff with your mate that is private, I know me and my mate do and wouldn’t want anyone joining us.

So if it is a problem, I would probably avoid the issue (like a politician) using the private conversation angle, so there’s no need to get into a helmet debate at all.

This is such fannyarsery. You’re halfway around a trail. No matter anyone’s thoughts on helmets, there’s nothing you can do to get him to wear one at that moment.
Just ask if he forgot it when you get to the carpark and have a conversation.

This is such fannyarsery. You’re halfway around a trail. No matter anyone’s thoughts on helmets, there’s nothing you can do to get him to wear one at that moment.

agreed

Just ask if he forgot it when you get to the carpark and have a conversation

But why bother??

Just ask if he forgot it when you get to the carpark and have a conversation

I was imagining :
“Did you leave your helmet at home?”
-“Nah, can’t stand them for a pootle around a trail centre”
“Fair enough.”
-“Fancy staying at my chalet in the Alps next summer?”

A little bit Off Topic but bear with me.

Walking down Scafell the other day (i’ve got 2 broken wrists right now so no biking 🙁 ) Everywhere was dense fog with perhaps 20m visability. Out of the gloom came 4 lads who looked underprepared for the pub never mind the Fells. They saw I had a map tucked into my belt and asked where they were and which way was Seathwaite! (We were just below Lingmel Col if you know it).

I showed them (I teach Outdoor Ed), explained it would be tricky finding their way without map/extra help etc. Then wished them luck.

Heres my point. They asked for advice. They got some. Would I/should I dish out the advice otherwise? Hell no. Unless they were in genuine mortal danger.

We are very lucky to live in a country where despite what is said we largely determine our own actions in response to hazard – Riding a bicycle at speed without a helmet being one of them – and we largely carry the reposnsibility for the consequenses of our response to hazards. Long may that continue.

In other reading – Helmets and risk compensation (Do it like a Dane and be safe!)

I was imagining :
“Did you leave your helmet at home?”
-“Nah, can’t stand them for a pootle around a trail centre”
“Fair enough.”
-“Fancy staying at my chalet in the Alps next summer?”

Fair enough Scuzz, can I stay at your chalet?? 😆

I was at GT on Sunday. Forgot my helmet. Looked in shop, but didn’t like any of the helmets there. Rode up and did spooky etc all the way down. I’m an adult and can make my own risk assessments. I rode well within my skill level (so really really slowly then!) and didn’t fall off or hurt myself, until the very last corner on the very last run, where I went up the last berm too high for some reason, topped out, and fell to the outside. Hurt my pinkie a wee bit, that was hurt previously anyway. Didn’t feel too comfortable without a helmet, but no way I’d not ride just because I didn’t have one.

I am not a great fan of people tagging along – unless I offer them the opportunity.

Personally I would just make a bit more effort and drop them!! Then take an illogical diversion. I wouldn’t want to pick up the pieces when it goes wrong either.

Just out of interest, do the people who don’t wear helmets also wear or not wear seatbelts.

And how do you rationalise your decision?

I don’t think anyone here is saying they regularly ride without a helmet on purpose (though I do on the cycle track on my road bike actually), just that it’s not the massive life or death issue some are making it out to be.

And yes I wear a seatbelt. Partly because I don’t want to get fined. Do you wear a helmet in the car? When crossing a busy road? If not how do you rationalise your decision? 😉

If my car had a maximum speed of 20-odd mph, and only weighed 10 kg, I probably wouldn’t wear a seat belt.

Do you refuse to have overweight friends, smokers, people who drive too fast, people who waste the earth’s resources? No. Tell him what you think, if you must, but it’s their decision, not yours.

There’s certain situations where you’d have a word with someone – if you notice the QR on their front wheel was loose…or if they’re about to rock climb without tying in properly, but where someone’s consciously made a choice about their own safety, it’s none of your business.

Otherwise you might as well be having a word with people like me who ride like muppets and are launching themselves down black routes. Just as likely to do myself a mischief, but it’s my problem.

In terms of the OP’s point, if he really doesn’t want a tag-along, then he either has to drop them, hang around until they get bored waiting and take off, or ask them what route they’re doing and take a diversion.

Maybe not a magic forcefield, but I definitely feel less venerable when wearing a helmet.

That doesn’t mean what you think it means 😉

I wouldn’t say anything, I don’t really care enough about the “issue” to bring it up. I’ve had loads of crashes on bikes but have only ever actually hit the helmet on the ground once, and that was the chin of my full face rather than the “brain” bit.