Why not just cut in half and then count the rings?

does anybody know what the universe is expanding into?

Itself.

Why not just cut in half and then count the rings?

or count the candles on it’s cake

is there anything beyond the universe ?

God knows

gravity has no speed that is like asking what the speed of magnetism is. It is a force that has a power and a range
You do get different size infinities so we know some infinites are larger than other infinities.
The grains of sand on a beach may be infinite as are the grains of sand in the world. However we still know which is the larger of the two infinities.

it’s about 37 years old give or take a few months..

Dunno where this 13 billion figure came from as it’s clear from the bible that the universe was created about 6000 years ago.
Of course that doesn’t mean that god created a brand new sparkly, straight out of the box universe then. He might of made a pre-aged one to spice things up a bit.

MidlandTrailquestsGraham – Member
How do you measure the speed of gravity ?
You can switch on a light source and measure how long it takes the light to get somewhere.
How do you instantly switch on a gravity source ?

I don’t know but I think it would invalidate the general theory of relativity if it did so.

Gravity is an accelerating force of attraction which is a function of the mass of an object. Gravity is a force of attraction and therefore a non mass entity so the speed of acceleration due to gravity i.e. how ‘fast’ it works could mean that acceleration due to gravity is > than the speed of light however the speed of the object being attracted will not exceed the speed of light.

The limitations of the ‘speed of light’ is a bit of misnomer as even a photon can only travel as at a fraction of the speed of light albeit it 99.99999rec% of that speed. Only a non mass particle (tachyon) could exceed the speed of light.

But when you start talking about size, and dimension and time etc in universal and quantum terms you need to realise that these terms are not the same as you think of in a day to day 4 dimensional universe.

does anybody know what the universe is expanding into?

The best way to imagine the universe is to imagine a balloon with points on it for stars which are becoming more distant as the universe expands. However then you have to realise that the universe isn’t expanding INTO anything it just is and you have to account for the fact that it exists in more than ten dimensions…

Dunno where this 13 billion figure came from

Perhaps you might want to do a little research then, instead of talking gibberish about the sky fairy.

Dunno where this 13 billion figure came from as it’s clear from the bible that the universe was created about 6000 years ago.
Of course that doesn’t mean that god created a brand new sparkly, straight out of the box universe then. He might of made a pre-aged one just to test our faith.

True, and a ‘day’ as referred to in Genesis may or may not be a ‘day’ as we understand it …

He might of made a pre-aged one to spice things up a bit.

like a sort of massive intergalactic pair of stonewashed jeans?

Perhaps you might want to do a little research then

But science is just a feeble way of trying to understand and explain what God created, hence the ‘aged’ universe theory could be correct

molgrips, as the light source is ‘moving away’ from us and the speed of light is constant, the wavelength increases and shifts to the red end of the spectrum, hence red shift.

Yeah but.. say you were measuring the light with a ruler – your ruler would be getting longer all the time too – so you’d not see any increase in wavelength…..

To consider the quantum side of things as the photos interact with your eye – for them to be redder, they would have to have less energy – where’s the energy gone?

gravity has no speed that is like asking what the speed of magnetism is. It is a force that has a power and a range

If you have two bodies, there’s an attraction between them, say they are both attached to spring balances. If you remove half of the first mass – how long does it take before the spring balance on the second mass shows a change in its reading?

The limitations of the ‘speed of light’ is a bit of misnomer as even a photon can only travel as at a fraction of the speed of light albeit it 99.99999rec% of that speed. Only a non mass particle (tachyon) could exceed the speed of light

Photons have no mass, that’s why they do travel at the speed of light!

“But science is just a feeble way of trying to understand and explain what God created…”

Oh dear, I can’t see this ending well.

But science is just a feeble way of trying to understand and explain what God created

Here we go again. Next, you’ll be saying something like “If we come from monkeys, how come there’s still monkeys” to “disprove” the fact of evolution.

Get a brain. I’m outta here. 🙄

leggyblonde, from NASA

Thanks for your question. It is true that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. And it is also true that our universe is expanding faster than the speed of light today. This sounds like a contradiction, but actually it is space itself that is expanding faster than the speed of light, driving objects further apart at an increasing rate. The concept of space expanding faster than the speed of light is not in contradiction with the limit for zero mass particles, ultimate speed. A nice discussion of this can also be found at: http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=575

and you have to account for the fact that it exists in more than ten dimensions…

that is theoretical and not fully accepted yet. The evidence for SST is not conclusive [ either way]
SST= super string theory which suggest varies numbers for dimensions depending on person /theory/particles[fermions [10] v bosons[26] for example]

Am I alone in not understanding why anyone gives a **** about stuff like this?

But science is just a feeble way of trying to understand and explain what God created, hence the ‘aged’ universe theory could be correct

you are aright an highly innacuarte book is much stronger than feeble science.
Anything “could” be right but we ned to look at probabilities and decide which is “probably” right. I see little point in having this debate if you have faith as you dont need facts to support your view , which is handy as there are none hence the use of “aged” universe to explain the inaccurate nature of the lords word.

Your ruler would get so big that it would be unrecognisable due to the increasing distance between the atoms that it’s made from.

Yeah but.. say you were measuring the light with a ruler – your ruler would be getting longer all the time too – so you’d not see any increase in wavelength…..

To consider the quantum side of things as the photos interact with your eye – for them to be redder, they would have to have less energy – where’s the energy gone?

Imagine the light is a spring. The further you strech it, the lower the frequency of coils for a set distance. To strech this spring you need energy, which reduces the frequency.
Makes sense in my head. Need a coffee now…

sslowpace that’s an interesting link, cheers.

Every bloody question answered opens up about 100 more questions!

Photons have no mass, that’s why they do travel at the speed of light!

Or do they as they can be acted on by a large enough mass?
Just to be annoying, like 😀

If we are using general relativity as our explantion of gravity then gravity isn’t a force its the manifestation of the curving of spacetime.

Therefore you can’t think of gravity as travelling faster than the spead of light, gravity doesn’t travel through space, it is space

Am I alone in not understanding why anyone gives a **** about stuff like this?

I sure there are plenty of OK magazine readers who agree with you GW

leggyblonde, love this stuff too 😀

GW – Member
Am I alone in not understanding why anyone gives a **** about stuff like this?

Exactly……

…….Meaning of life – hmmmm I’d rather ask an artist, poet or philosopher than some particle jockey 🙄

I see little point in having this debate if you have faith as you dont need facts to support your view

The problem is that you put too much faith in your ‘facts’, forgetting that the FSM uses his noodly appendage to alter the results of all scientific experiments.

Exactly……

…….Meaning of life – hmmmm I’d rather ask an artist, poet or philosopher than some particle jockey

now that’s the most common sense ever to be posted on the subject..

IanMunro – Member

I see little point in having this debate if you have faith as you dont need facts to support your view

The problem is that you put too much faith in your ‘facts’, forgetting that the FSM uses his noodly appendage to alter the results of all scientific experiments.

Ramen, brother.

Photons have no mass, that’s why they do travel at the speed of light!

Or do they as they can be acted on by a large enough mass?
Just to be annoying, like

Thats because gravity curves the space through which the photons are travelling. They can still have no mass but be deflected by the curvature of space

But science is just a feeble way of trying to understand and explain what God created, hence the ‘aged’ universe theory could be correct

Logically perfectly admissible, but a pretty useless position to take imo.

Or do they as they can be acted on by a large enough mass?
Just to be annoying, like

Au contraire – gravitational lensing doesn’t work by the mass of the star attracting the photons in a Newtonian kind of way…

Meaning of life – hmmmm I’d rather ask an artist, poet or philosopher than some particle jockey

Fail – the particle jockeys aren’t trying to figure out the meaning of life of course, they are trying to figure out how the universe works. Totally different thing.

worrying about either = fail

there is no meaning to life and how the universe works makes **** all difference to anyone. now who’s Jordan shagging this week? 😉

Ian, stop it. You know that’s naughty 🙂

richmtb & molgrips

Cool

But theoretically, is it photons that would act on a solar sail? And if so, would they have to have mass to propel it through space?

molgrips – Member

Fail – the particle jockeys aren’t trying to figure out the meaning of life of course, they are trying to figure out how the universe works. Totally different thing.

Semantics Molly, semantics 😉
Meaning of life/how the universe works/where did we come from/how did it all start – same question different spin, bottom line is none of the current theories are testable with current knowledge/technology and the possible explanations have been reverse engineered from slightly fragile data sets.

Not too mention the occasional imgainary particle or new form of undetectable matter which is needed to balance the books ! It’s all academically stimulating I agree, but perhaps not the most pressing area of research funding in current times…..

…..and I’m not sure if the Universe ‘works’, last I heard it was on benefits and putting in a claim for a bigger house due to expansion

Meaning of life/how the universe works/where did we come from/how did it all start – same question

Is it hell. Completely different questions.

IanMunro – Member
I see little point in having this debate if you have faith as you dont need facts to support your view

The problem is that you put too much faith in your ‘facts’, forgetting that the FSM uses his noodly appendage to alter the results of all scientific experiments.

Thats quantum physics, that is……. 😆

molgrips – Member
Is it hell. Completely different questions.

But all equally meaningless when answered by a scientist 🙂