Bankers appear not to have reduced their conditions of service and rewards despite having done not a very good job. Why should it be assumed that the employees and tax payers are always the ones to carry the can for crises in the system. J M Keynes showed us how it's not a good idea to reduce people's income in a recession because that gives them less money to spend.
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How do STW'ers feel about workers going on strike?
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Posted 2 years ago #
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wot Buzzlightyear says seems sensible ^^
I think BA is doomed - haven't flown with them for years as I always used to find their cabin crew less than friendly (even though it seems they're the best paid in the industry)
I even made the mistake once of treking across Tehran many years ago to find a BA office to change my return flight from Iran Air that some joker in the office had booked me with - the return flight was appaling compared with Iran Air.So strike away and set the controls for the heart of the sun cos you're dooooooomed.......
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bankers appear not to have reduced their conditions of service and rewards despite having done not a very good job. Why should it be assumed that the employees and tax payers are always the ones to carry the can for crises in the system. J M Keynes showed us how it's not a good idea to reduce people's income in a recession because that gives them less money to spend.
That's fine, but how is that actually going to work out in this case given the state BA is in?
Easy to say I know when it's not your job on the line, but my impression of it is basically the same as llamafarmers:
I may be way off, but I get the impression the BA staff are still enjoying the spoils of the old fashioned jetset lifestyle, which doesn't add up anymore - good budget airlines mean BA can't simply stand out by offering an image of luxury and class, they have to get cheaper, so their staff can no longer live in the rarified atmosphere they once did. At the end of the day the staff look like they're shooting themselves in the foot by hurting an already struggling employer.
So yes to their rights to withhold their labour and all the rest of it, but they don't wave away the economic reality of it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
'cos Unite and their members seem to be as think as ....
Not as 'think' as the irony in your post
Those who are against striking, perhaps you would like to go back to Victorian style pay and conditions - it's striking that won most of the improvements for workers in safety, pay, conditions etc
Posted 2 years ago # -
What have 'Bankers' got to do with this?
Rather than join a Union I think I'd rather put the subs into a bank account. I'm also not the sort of person who would be pushed around by anyone or follow rhetoric.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Whatever happens to BA they should not be bailed out ... Let the market takes it's course.
I would urge the BA Union to push for all out full strike and not give an inch or even extend the strike as long as possible and the BA Management should simply ignores the Union. No need to have meeting etc just avoid them and forget about the call for talk. Ignore them. Tell the Govt to F off as it is none of their business.
Motivation? What motivation? It's simply a matter of stupidity and pure greed from the BA Union.
p/s: let me give the Union a push ...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bankers appear not to have reduced their conditions of service and rewards despite having done not a very good job
Not the same thing. The bankers bonus affair is industry wide. Here we are talking about whether or not BA should have higher pay than the rest of the industry.
As for the service of BA, I found them to be way the best on the routes I typically fly.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Just watched the union spokesman giving an interview after the members meeting this morning. The style appears to have changed very little since Scargill et al.
Problem is that they are usually negotiating with well educated management who are undoubtedly advised by even better educated specialists in whatever given field the dispute is about. With the best will in the world, the union bosses I have had dealings with are generally poorly educated and have risen through the ranks because they are very politically motivated or simply because no-one else wanted the job.
It is little surprise that management usually comes out on top.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Here we are talking about whether or not BA should have higher pay than the rest of the industry.
Not really. Well, at least we started out talking about whether the BA staff are right to consider withdrawing their labour in opposition to unilateral changes to their terms and conditions which are being proposed by management. T & Cs which the management have previously negotiated and agreed.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Talks have now collapsed and the strike is on from midnight.
Railway strikes are also looking likely.
Nice lead up to the general election for Labour
Posted 2 years ago # -
Postierich, while I accept that you're probably looking at the letter of the deal, the fact is that when it comes in, the majority of my office with younger kids and a working wife are not going to be able to work these new hours-hence many of them will by necessity find themselves looking for a new job.
We've been told that the five households per day WILL roll out within the next 18 months.Posted 2 years ago # -
Did nobody here watch "Requiem for Detroit" the other day?
It's still available on iPlayer until tomorrow, here.
It shows how Detroit is facing up to being the first "post industrial" city after it failed to adapt to the falling demand for huge gas guzzling cars.
The truth is that the cost of air travel is going to increase dramatically in the coming years as we reach the limits of growth (environmental reasons and fuel resources) and the numbers of people flying will decrease. The entire airline industry is too big with the big players already scrapping for survival. If it's not BA that folds it will be some other company, so to me it doesn't really matter which, and the sooner it happens and moves on, probably the better (unless you happen to actually work for BA).
OTOH, if people want to strike, that is their prerogative. I think if my employer asked me to take a big pay cut and degraded my working conditions, I might also take the "up yours" option.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah but better for us if a non-UK based company folds?!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Who's this "us" you speak of?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Another very unfortunate thing for companies is that when worker morale hits a certain low, the employees no longer see themselves having a long term future with the company, so the long term future of the company itself is of minimal interest to them. The worst potential effects of industrial action is for them a kind of scorched-earth policy.
I'm not far off this stage myself, only I'm equally angry with my union.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I, for my sins, am a Unite rep but in an entirely different sector and we have a completely different way of working with management than the rest of Unite - we work more in partnership with management rather than battling against them.
Anyhow, as such I received the following email from Unite explaining the situation as it is with BA. Of course, this is coming from just one side so I couldn't possible comment on whether there is any bias
but hopefully it may explain a bit more about the situation: British Airways - the truth
Unite cabin crew members at British Airways are now days away from strike action. Much of the media has portrayed the crew as overpaid, underworked and prepared to bring BA down to its knees. Nothing can be further from the truth.
The last thing BA crew want to do is to go on strike. In fact, the crew are preparing to take industrial action as a last resort because they care so much about BA and want the airline to have a future as a premier carrier.
In November 2009, BA imposed changes that cut over 1,000 crew members from flights, cuts that cabin crew believe have been a disaster for the on-board service quality. BA’s European flights have seen 25 per cent reductions in crew numbers and on long-haul flights crew compliments have seen reductions of between 1 and 3.
Unite crew members realise that BA is operating in tough financial conditions. That’s why they offered the airline £62m in savings – the same amount BA has saved by removing cabin crew from flights. Crew were prepared to compromise on crew numbers, take a pay cut, and take cuts in their terms and conditions. But no matter how much the union offered, BA simply refused to accept. Unite believes that all along BA was merely playing lip-service to the negotiating process. We believe that BA has another agenda entirely – smashing the collective voice of cabin crew.
BA’s management is becoming increasingly macho. Under Willie Walsh’s leadership the company has undertaken a range of union busting tactics. Most of the crew’s local union leaders are either suspended or awaiting disciplinaries. A further 30 union members have been suspended on spurious grounds. Staff are living in fear of who could be next. BA has also spent months encouraging other BA staff to help break the strike by training up as cabin crew.
BA has threatened to remove the travel concessions from any crew member who goes on strike – this is a particularly vindictive move when around one third of crew use it to commute to work.
The way forward
Unite and its members did not want this strike. But we have been left with no option because management will not listen.
We are, however, ready to resume talks at any time. Crew are prepared to offer compromise and flexibility.
This dispute can only be avoided if BA is prepared to make a serious attempt to finding a negotiated settlement. It could start by putting the offer the airline made last week back on the table so that Unite could give members the right to accept or reject BA's proposal. Unite is prepared to halt the strike while members are consulted and will stand by crew's decision. The ball is clearly in BA's court.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Havent BA been fined £800m for price / fuel irregularities. Fine management there, I'm sure some of this cash could have gone to reducing the impact of the market at the mo.
ALSO
Cabin crew have been employed on certain terms and conditions. No one has held a gun to the head of BA to employ these staff. Now the market has turned and planes are over staffed according to BA. Perhaps if those crew actually started to BE the worlds best, users would see what a benefit they are and use the service more. All are to blame to some extent, but, put yourself in their shoes. If you were told tomorrow that your t & C are being changed what do you do? Leave? fair enough if you want to or argue that you dont see it as fair after all, this is how you were employed.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Why do a group of staff who mostly enjoy better terms and salaries than their counterparts with other airlines want to put their business at risk?
BA have lost well over £1bn in the past couple of years. Where do the staff think the moneys going to come from??!! They should be glad to have well paid employment despite the difficult trading period.
Additionally their action has caused huge volumes of cancelled flights which simply makes matters worse.
It is their right to strike but pretty ill advised I would say.
Posted 2 years ago # -
ninja
Unite (it would apear) have offered means of making savings equal to BA's though through different means but BA have rejected them and opted to let Unite strike The cost of which will be 50% on top of the cost of the saving. If this was a purely financial decision you would be silly not to at least give it a try, however I fear BA have a bigger target in mind and certainly WW wants to show how strong he is before he goes to the spanish company with the union problem
Posted 2 years ago # -
Who's this "us" you speak of?
UK resident/tax payer maybe?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Equally, if the staff give the company what they want now, where does it end?
there will always be someone, somewhere with cheaper domestic costs willing to undercut, and due to the global freemarket that Britain PLC is so keen on, they all have access to our market.
That includes all types of businesses, maybe soon, someone willing to replace you.Posted 2 years ago # -
Those who are against striking, perhaps you would like to go back to Victorian style pay and conditions - it's striking that won most of the improvements for workers in safety, pay, conditions etc
Striking for pay and conditions isn't really the same as striking against a business circling the drain though is it?
Posted 2 years ago # -
the Ba strike is about pay and conditions though.
Posted 2 years ago # -
mudshark,
Painful though it might be in the short-term, maybe in the long-term, reducing the size of our airline industry might be a good thing?
Maybe BA is Rover?
If BA hasn't made a profit for 2 years (and I seem to remember it having similarly difficult patches in the past), then maybe it is just a duff business?
We might be better off without it? - Other airlines will grow, BAA will have to up its game, Heathrow might not get its third runway, high speed rail might look more attractive etc.
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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