Looking to slacken the head angle of my new frame so it is closer to my old one. 1 1/8 head tube so no angleset (yet)

I will be running a higher profile tyre on the front, but could still do with some more slackness 🙂

650b or 69er 🙂

sorry should have stated, no oap wagon wheels 😛

Cane Creek Angleset: http://www.canecreek.com/AngleSet

Not cheap though.

[EDIT] Well that’ll teach me to skim the first post 😥

why do you want slacker?

to me all this talk of angles is a misnomer..

surely all changing angle does is alter how your weight is distributed front to back on the bike?

perhaps try a shorter stem or a higher stem/bars and moving your saddle back to do the same and see what effect that has?

you could also if you want to do the angles get a headtube insert (see bar spin fixie crowd) if yo have enough room to do so with steerer length

Can you not get a oversized crown race? Thought there was one available…

http://www.workscomponents.co.uk/new—10-degree-ec34—traditional-1-18-fitment-6-p.asp

I don’t think the Cane Creek one for 1 1/8 is in production yet, but there are a couple of other options:

This (clicky) and some guy on mtbr to makes them custom.

Edit: same as above

Bit less pressure/compression in the shock?

Bit more pressure/compression in the fork?

you are only looking for 8mm at either end, or 4mm at both for 1 degree, I’d be surprised if you could notice 0.5 degree.

Easiest thing to do is fit a +5mm or similar deeper headset lower cup, on-1 and cane creek have them. Lower cups can vary from 12 to about 18mm deep, that’s about 1/4 degree of permanent change.

Tyre and headset depth can make a subtle difference to trail if you’re picky / notice these things.

would a +5mm crown race (a la CK) be OK, or would you consider that “lengthening the fork”?

@rootes1

make the bike more stable at speed.

Like the look of the works components one, but i’m looking for a cheapo version like the crown race idea or a headset with a large lower cup.

edit: cheers jameso will have a search for the one 1 and ck ones 🙂

offset shock bushings (assuming its a FS bike)

bang a MASSIVE tyre on the front. 😀

smaller volume rear tyre will slacken a bike by 0.5deg easily

bang a MASSIVE tyre on the front.

and run REAL low pressure in the back.

will have a high roller on the front and fastrak on the back.

Hopefully the combo of this and a deeper lower cup will do the job.

Works Components headset works great and is a lot cheaper than Cane Creek etc. And it exists now for standard 1 1/8 head tubes rather than at some indeterminate time in the future.

I doubt you’d notice a -0.5? difference, but a -1? is noticeable, ime anyway.

to me all this talk of angles is a misnomer..

surely all changing angle does is alter how your weight is distributed front to back on the bike?

No, if you slacken the head angle, it slows the steering and makes the bike more stable feeling at speed and on steep descents. It’s obviously just part of the whole handling balance, but it does a lot more than just shift weight distribution on the bike or two bikes otherwise identical but with different head angles would handle just the same. But they don’t.

If you take a twitchy race hardtail with a steep head-tube, you can change your weight distribution all you like and dampen down the steering with wider bars etc, but it will still be a steep and twitchy race hardtail.

Anyway… just fitting a longer fork or a deeper head-set lower cup/talle crown race will slacken the head, but it’ll also cant the seat angle back slightly which will move your weight backwards and, potentially, screw up steep climbing ability and weight distribution on the bike. The nice thing about an angle-set is that it actually makes the seat angle correspondingly steeper, so your weight is kept forward, so climbing should be unaffected or even improved.

you are only looking for 8mm at either end, or 4mm at both for 1 degree, I’d be surprised if you could notice 0.5 degree.

I don’t think this is right because it would mean that changing from Fox 32s to 36s on my trail bike I would have changed the HA from 68 to 63.7 which would be slacker than most DH bikes and horrible for a trail bike.

36s are 35mm longer than 32s btw

I can notice the difference when my pikes are at 130 compared to 140 😉

If it’s a FS then run more sag in the shock, and get it to ramp up a bit more if you can. This is what I do on my Patriot and it helps. Also gets you a lower COG which is nice on the singletrack.

Oops well spotted SD that was out by a factor of 2 – it’s 17mm per degree…

http://www.burgtec.co.uk/news/new-product-release-burgtec-titanium-offset-shock-hardware/

yes? no? mebees?

it’s 17mm per degree…

That seems a bit exact – I’ve always said ‘about 20mm’. Surely this depends on the wheelbase of the bike to an extent as you’re pivoting around the back wheel.

Forgot to mention, it’s a ht

kudos100 – Member

sorry should have stated, no oap wagon wheels

Stick a 24 on the back?

no then. 😀

Another vote for Works Components. Great, swift advice too.

simons_nicolai-uk – Member

it’s 17mm per degree…

That seems a bit exact – I’ve always said ‘about 20mm’. Surely this depends on the wheelbase of the bike to an extent as you’re pivoting around the back wheel.

It’s a while since I sat down and did the maths, but my memory is that none of the factors that vary between bikes vary enough to make a significant difference.

As always, happy to be proven wrong, of course!

Just out of interest, what are peoples views on optimum head and seat angles for any given application? I realise that small things such as tyre profile/height etc can have small effects as demonstrated above but in terms of frames etc, what are your thoughts?

I for instance have an ’08 Patriot with the shuttle to alter head and seat angles. The bike is a bit of a jack of all trades but having an HT, it will primaraly used for gravity assisted work in future. Taking into account the angleset cups you can now get for the 1 1/8 headtubes etc, what would be a decent compromise between offering some downhill stability and the ability to ride back up again aferwards?

My favorite frame ever is the ns surge which has a 67 deg head angle and a 71ish st angle. Absolute riot and still climbs pretty well.

I wouldn’t want anything slacker than about 65 if I was doing a reasonable amount of climbing

Thanks, that’s useful to know. I’ll have a play around then and see what works/doesn’t.

36s are 35mm longer than 32s btw

but not when you take into account the extra sag.

raising the front end will also raise the bottom bracket which can offset any gains you get from the slacker angle.

If it was full suss I’d have said the offset bushings/softer spring/shorter shock approach would be my first port of call. not as easy to do on a hardtail.

climbing is about seat angle & chainstay & stem length more than head angle.

36s are 35mm longer than 32s btw
but not when you take into account the extra sag.

Didn’t think sag was factored in when measuring these things being as everyone sets their bikes up differently.

Oops well spotted SD that was out by a factor of 2 – it’s 17mm per degree…

Cheers. So I’m running a HA around the 66 deg mark, sounds about right. Feels mint, scary fast.

thing is a full sus bike will probably sag an extra 2-3 deg onto your head angle, where as a hard tail won’t…

climbing is about seat angle & chainstay & stem length more than head angle.

it’s an orange patriot……..

Do On-One still make the Smoothie +5 headset? Got one on my 456 which was originally put in to give the fork crown clearance under the downtube.

I thought Cane Creek made one too.

Edit: Can’t find the Smoothie but here’s the CC one – CC +5mm

it’s an orange patriot…..

You should have a moveable shock mount then…?

cynic-al – Member
climbing is about seat angle & chainstay & stem length more than head angle.

for me it’s more about bar height (or technique if I actually find the motivation not to get off and push).
Just out of interest tho what’s the slackest HA you’ve ever climbed hills on Al?