No drama. Parliament is due it’s summer break. New cabinet etc, so this will probably be discussed when the Government next meets after the break.

except that the investors may decide that the risk isn’t now worth it for the price, so want a higher price for the electricity…

IS this fallout from Brexit?

It was a crazy project before brexit so maybe not, but if brexit adds to the risks generated by it inevitably massively overrunning in time and budget then it might be. Speculation on speculation really. EDF weren’t exactly all behind it so it isn’t surprising the government aren’t either.

hugely overpriced piece of civil and mechanical steam raising engine, reduce consumption, switch off lights on motorways, building floodlighting, and many other engery waste streams, and spend the cash saved on low engergy products.

hugely overpriced piece of civil and mechanical steam raising engine, reduce consumption, switch off lights on motorways, building floodlighting, and many other engery waste streams, and spend the cash saved on low engergy products.

Yep agree, do all that but we’ll still need new power stations otherwise we’ll be short. So FFS someone make a decision!

we also have interconectors between ireland and France for power, what happens when we leave the eec, even less power available, best to stock up on AA batteries now

Below is a list of existing and future interconnectors.

As with other major infrastructure projects future interconnectors face a range of challenges that can impact on timing of delivery. The estimated delivery dates shown below reflects our understanding of developers existing delivery plans for future interconnectors.

PROJECT NAME DEVELOPERS CONNECTING COUNTRY CAPACITY CAP AND FLOOR REGIME? EXEMPTION? DELIVERY DATE/ ESTIMATED DELIVERY DATE
IFA National Grid Interconnector Holdings (NGIH) and RTE France 2000MW No No 1986
Moyle Mutual Energy Ireland 500MW* No No 2002
BritNed NGIH and TenneT Netherlands 1000MW No Yes (Second Package) 2011
EWIC EirGrid Ireland 500MW No No 2012
ElecLink Star Capital Partners Limited and Groupe Eurotunnel France 1000MW No Yes (Third Package) 2019
NEMO NGIH and Elia Belgium 1000MW Yes No 2019
NSN NGIH and Statnett Norway 1400MW Yes No 2020
FAB Link Transmission Investment and RTE France 1400MW Yes No 2022
IFA2 NGIH and RTE France 1000MW Yes No 2020
Viking NGIH and Energinet.dk Denmark 1000MW Yes No 2022
Greenlink Element Power Ireland 500MW Yes No 2021

So build a few gas power stations to fill the gaps in renewables until we can design something else that a) doesn’t cost so much. b) works.

Hinckley is a lemon.

This seems a really bad deal.

I’m glad that the new government hasn’t just ploughed ahead and signed up.

But, I don’t know what their reasons are for delaying the decision.

Pause for thought, evaluate the options, decide.

Our requirement for electricity isn’t going to change markedly given Brexit. IMO this delay is May wanting to look at the project again before signing it off on “her watch”

Maybe with the end of austerity we’ll bankroll and build it ourselves (I know or own nuclear industry has been privatised and let to go fallow) rather than relying on state loans from China and state engineering from France.

EDFs own internal report reckon it will run hugely over budget and time, the Chinese have been garuantee compo by Osborne when that that happens, May knows it’s a stinker

I reckon she’ll leave it to her 3 fall guys, Johnson, Davies and Fox, unless she appointed Gove as minister for not listening to nuclear experts

“I reckon she’ll leave it to her 3 fall guys, Johnson, Davies and Fox, unless she appointed Gove as minister for not listening to nuclear experts”

😀

Is this a desperation solution though ?

The crazy guaranteed MWh pricing for 35 years !

£18 billion quid* to build it. Billions to decommission it.

* like that won’t increase.

Alternatives ? We need fusion to get solved pronto 🙂

Is there no reason we don’t plough every penny into tidal power?
Energy self sufficiency must be the top priority of any country.
Imagine being able to tell all the energy rich foreign despots to go **** themselves.
No doubt it will cost an absolute fortune but what an investment.
There again, the tories could build it using tax payers money then flog it to the Chinese for a pound.

Would you agree with the unions stating that government decision to have a rethink is “bonkers” ?

It seems a crap deal to me, what do the unions know that we dont ?

I’m pro nuke so anti Hinckley. Ap1000 is far further advanced so lower risk. If you need quick build go for Korean gen 3+. Hinckley is Eurofighter, Korean gen 3+ is F18.

How much would it cost the government to place solar panels on the roof of every dwelling/house in the UK and perhaps roll it out as a new work/training scheme to employ tens of thousands of contractors to do the fitting.

If Hinkley point will only produce 7% of the UK’s power then surely the solar energy generated on everyones roof would offset the need to build such a nuclear scheme?.

I guess i’m being simplistic but it’s better than signing over our power supply to foreign investors.

allthepies – Member

But, I don’t know what their reasons are for delaying the decision.

Neither do they, apparently- 5 days ago Hammond was proudly declaring how it’d go ahead and we were just waiting for EDF. The Chinese signatories for the finance side had been flown in ready to sign the deal, the press conferences had been booked… Suddenly, change of plan. Hurrah for our new government, here’s their first test of any note and they have no idea what they’re doing, they can’t plan 5 days into the future on a project that’ll take 20 years minimum.

TBH it feels like they expected EDF to back out, and now are left panicking.

The problem with solar is that it doesn’t work at night time. Or during the winter.

TBH it feels like they expected EDF to back out, and now are left panicking.

It’s like Johnson campaigning for Brexit all over again 😯

Bargaining chip to be used in Brexit negotiations?

Steelfreak – Member
Bargaining chip to be used in Brexit negotiations?

Interesting.

Explain?

Steelfreak – Member
Bargaining chip to be used in Brexit negotiations?

I suppose that the theory is EDF need the business more than we need electricty

Id say that was rubbish as

A) we are facing a huge energy shortage

B) EDF themselves know its going to be a disaster

Steelfreak – Member

Bargaining chip to be used in Brexit negotiations?

France themselves have cancelled their plans to build more reactors of this design, so it’s hard to see them being too intimidated by us doing the same as a brexit threat…

It’s us that’s potentially up shit street here tbh with an aging fleet of reactors and currently no real plan in place to deal with that.

Okay, so here’s the rundown.

By 2024 the first AGR reactors will be coming offline. Hinkley B and Hunterston B. Hartlepool and Heysham 1 will follow (Dungeness B has run so little it’ll probably be running till the 2120’s). ~6400GW down.

2034 sees Torness and Heysham 2 shut down, another ~2400GW down. So, that’s 8800GW of generation down in nuclear alone. Add in coal and it gets far worse.

So what’s the solution? C’mon big thinkers, you seem to have the answers, how do you replace 8800GW of nigh on 70% capacity?

AP1000 and Hitachi ABWR are due to exit design evaluation within the next year (one then the other, IIRC Hitachi are due out first), they will go ahead and if they are cheaper etc. then Sizewell C will simply be passed on to Hitachi or Westinghouse leaving Hinkley C as this generations equivalent of the Dungeness B fiasco. Chill, these things sort themselves out.

As for fusion, we have access to all of the resulting data and technnology from ITER as part of our EU membersh….oh.

So like I said build a few Gas power stations to provide base for renewables until reactors that work come on line.

Classic bad state policy – why debate an idea that produces losers among both the consumers and the producers of power?

At least the xenophobic nonsense has (largely) stopped

Oh..and if you could stop my wife tumble drying towels on breezy summers days we could probably get by with a lot less leccy.

So what’s the solution? C’mon big thinkers, you seem to have the answers, how do you replace 8800GW of nigh on 70% capacity?

I thought we got about 20% of our electricity from nuclear, most from gas and coal and the remainder c.10% renewables?

http://www.energy-uk.org.uk/energy-industry/electricity-generation.html
Quick summary of it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom
Total usage in the UK was 2249 TWH in 2014
Not sure of squirelkings numbers there but the point stands where can you find 8800 GWH of stable base load electricity?

So like I said build a few Gas power stations to provide base for renewables until reactors that work come on line.

How many, how much and what is the pollution from them?

Reduce usage (another)10%, increase renewables 10%(as per Scotland) and build 3/4 gas stations or more of the smaller ones.
These would be ready in 10years giving us time to build some actual working nuclear reactors or develop renewable storage.

We are being sold a pup with Hinckley,

If we go gas we go fracking (i’ve no problem with fracking). We import almost all our gas – alot of it from Qatar. Shipping gas a quarter of the way around the world is hardly the most CO2 friendly way of generating our electricity.

For me nuclear plus renewables is the only way forward. Maybe not Hinckley, I don’t know enough about the technicalities of it, but don’t like the idea of the Chinese being so invested in it.

Don’t the latest LNG carriers use LNG as fuel. Compared to the amount carried/used at the power station an insignificant amount.

2 happy premieres today

Not sure about happy. Relieved possibly, now old Francois juts has to worry about EDF generating a return well below its cost of capital on the project. Still a grand gesture – merci nos amis

£92.50 per mw/h for 35 years you’re going to be trying not to laugh never mind smile.

What do we reckon then, 1.5 x original cost and ten years late?

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t

What I don’t understand is how they government can guarantee EDF will be able to sell electricity at what will probably be above the market value when the station comes on line. How can they force electricity distributors to buy Hinkley’s electricity when other lower cost sources are available?

What I don’t understand is how they government can guarantee EDF will be able to sell electricity at what will probably be above the market value when the station comes on line. How can they force electricity distributors to buy Hinkley’s electricity when other lower cost sources are available?

It works through the Contract for Difference they have with the government, the government basically guarantees them the price for a set time and any difference between that and the market price of electricity is made up by the electricity suppliers ie we all pay for it through our bills, rather than the government paying them and increasing tax. In renewables it’s to stimulate investment in low carbon technology and it’s development until it becomes cheaper so carbon emission targets can be met, in nuclear, well people will argue about what the real reason for this project is, eg Chinese investments etc etc

The controversial thing with this project is the very high price but in particular for how long they’ve agreed it for, £92.50 is a lot higher than £45 or whatever the market price is just now and will be so for a very long time on a very high number of units sold. CfD for emerging energy sources like offshore wind also have a high price, but for a much shorter period of time, and many fewer units sold, before dropping to normal market price or nearby for the next 10 years or whatever.

Market price is roughly £32 for next year meaning a lot of generators will be running at a loss.

That said, with present market conditions I don’t expect it will be long before the wholesale cost starts coming back up, we’re already getting grid shortfalls and it’s not even cold yet. Headline news of total renewable generation is all well and good but it’s nowhere near consistent enough to be anything other than a soundbite.

The controversial thing with this project is the very high price but in particular for how long they’ve agreed it for,

They have to make a profit after all since they and not the Government are fronting the cash for it. We will simply have to pay the price for once again Governments both past and present not investing in the infrastructure of this country and leaving all to the private sector.

Privatisation bites us on the ar*e again.