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1. stevepitch - Member

   Following on from my previous threads and some said they were interested with what would happen I thought I would share my experience of tubeless over the past week.

   So I decided to convert my current wheel set which came with my spesh pitch, which are 26mm wide Alex rims according the specialized website. As this doesn’t fit either the normal or freeride set ups I went for the rhyno light option.

   Fitting to the rims would be standard (non UST) maxxis Minion DHf and swampthing rear, both dual ply.

   Anyway I started with the front first and things really couldn’t have been any easier I installed the notubes rim strip (without drilling the rim) over my existing rim tape put the tyre on with no soap or sealant and started pumping the tyre went up straight away no faffing no messing and held air with no issues.

   However removing one bead to add the sealant ended in disaster after such an easy test could I get the tyre to reseat on the rim, could I F***? I had to completely dismount the tyre and start afresh for some odd reason on this second attempt with soapy water and sealant it went up straight away with no issues again which was a relief.

   Moving to rear wheel and after such joy with the front I was almost expecting the same so I set up everything as I had with the front wheel expecting the swampy to fit. First hurdle (and I don’t understand this) but the tyre was a lot tighter on the rim than the minion and I had to fight just to get it on (with soap). Once on the tyre seemed to pinch together and sit in the centre of the rim and no matter what I did I couldn’t get it sit right let alone inflate.

   I tried all manner or combinations using the stans rim tape the standard rim tape both combined etc etc and all resulted in either the tyre being tight or the tyre being stupidly tight that it was almost impossible to get off. Thinking that it may need a helping hand I mounted the tyre with a tube and left it for a few days hoping that it may help it form nicely.

   Well last night was second attempt night and guess what.......bloody thing wouldn’t go up despite all manner of jiggery pokery so now I stumped and I'll probably try drilling the rim then trying all over again.

   So at the moment I'm tubeless front and tubed rear and too tight to buy a new UST tyre. As it stands tubeless could be great and it’s perfectly possible to install non ust tyres tubeless but when it becomes a faff it really is a faff!!!

   Posted 5 months ago #
2. duntstick - Member

   
   

   Posted 5 months ago #
3. anotherdeadhero - Member

   Use a CO2 cannister, you need to pop the rear tyre into the bead with sudden inflation. Or one of those coke bottle jobs (though I've never got one to work myself).

   I also find it easier to put sealant in via the valve core, rather than pulling the bead off.

   Good luck. It's worth it.

   Posted 5 months ago #
4. clubber - Member

   A couple of tips

   Inflate with the valve core removed as that lets your track pump move air a lot more freely/quickly, removing the need for a compressor IME.

   Before attempting to inflate, use a tyre lever to pull the bead of each side of the tyre out of the well in the rim as close to the rim sidewalls as possible as that'll ensure a tighter fit. Basically, do as though you were going to remove the tyre but before it flips over the rim sidewall, just run the tyre lever the whole way round the rim/tyre - lube it if necessary with some sealant/fairy liquid.

   Posted 5 months ago #
5. Hopk1ns - Member

   Try having the valve at the bottom and push down slightly so the tire bulges a bit and the walls spread out around the valve.
   The tyre is probably tighter as its a mud tyre and designed to be run at lower pressures and not come off the rim.

   Posted 5 months ago #
6. mtbfix - Member

   Tubeless, what a faff! However the downs of messing with sealant are far outweighed by the wonders of nil punctures (so far, touch wood).

   Posted 5 months ago #
7. clubber - Member

   I've found that I've swapped tubes and mid-ride faff (regular punctures) for tubeless and pre-ride faff (occassionally come to bike to find tyre with no air in and have to pump it up).

   I prefer occassional pre-ride faff. YMMV

   Posted 5 months ago #
8. footflaps - Member

   By a compressor - makes tubeless really easy to set up (although some tyre / rim combinations won't work regardless of how many 100 litres of air you pump into them at 80psi).

   Posted 5 months ago #
9. P20 - Member

   I'd give the Pykey inflator a go

   Posted 5 months ago #
10. neninja - Member

    I've usually been able to get most tyres up on a variety of Stans rims with just a track pump (with C02 or Kwikfit as a last resort occasionally).

    Got a great tip on here recently about putting a 26" inner tube around the outside of the tyre before pumping up. I helps the tyre seal against the rim and combined with some diluted washing up liquid around the bead works a treat. Now tyres which are usually C02 candidates go up with just the pump.

    Posted 5 months ago #
11. Mark N - Member

    Just to confirm what has already been said.

    1, Soapy water really does help get the bead to seat easily.
    2, If refitting a used tyre the clean the bead and the seat on the rim.
    3, Valve core out so you can get the air and sealant in.
    4, Compressor at home does make it a lot easier but not essential.
    5, Damaged rim may cause issues getting the bead to seat.
    6, If struggling seat both beads with inner tube then crack one to remove the tube and install valve. One bead seated is much easier.

    If you brush on loads of soapy water you will get to see where the air is leaking from. I have seen tyres that are damaged on the side wall close to the bead and this will leak sufficient air to stop you getting it up, especially if hand pumping. I have not found the need yet to use a more expensive UST tyre to go tubeless.

    I hope that help with the rear tyre.

    Posted 5 months ago #
12. akak - Member

    OP did better than me - 0/2 wheels on first attempt. I will try the valve core and maybe inner tube around the outside suggested above.

    Posted 5 months ago #
13. thisisnotaspoon - Member

    I had the same experience as you, I used the middlign rim strip (the on intended for the DT5.1 and Mavic en321 with no fuss using maxxis high rollers, Swampthigns I've never managed to work, I think the casing is a funny shape, much rounder than a normal square section tyre?

    DT rims are even easier IME, my x470's just needed 4 layers of electrical tape and a vlave!

    Posted 5 months ago #
14. justatheory - Member

    Are there any drawbacks to the feel of the ride? Or any other drawbacks aside from the inconvenience of the initial setup?

    Posted 5 months ago #
15. coffeeking - Member

    I loved tubeless for about a week, then realised when you roll the tyre on a dodgy landing in the middle of nowhere and have to rely on a tube to get you home anyway, you don't really gain much, and constantly having to keep the tyre inflated due to minor leaks, plus the 100g of latex you have to have running around in there that eventually dries in a clump at one side giving you off balance wheels....

    Maybe i'm doing it wrong, but it was no fun for me.

    Posted 5 months ago #
16. mrblobby - Member

    Ghetto tubeless inflator is the way to go.

    Coffeeking, works fine for me. I've had the tyre blow off the rim a couple of times but it's always gone back on with a gas cartridge. I've not had to resort to a tube yet. And I do tend to take the tyre off and change the sealant once every six months or so and never had any nasty clumping. What sealant are you using? Use stan's here but it may be worth trying something different, maybe some of the caffelatex stuff.

    Posted 5 months ago #
17. alfabus - Member

    Highs:
    Only one trailside 'puncture' in 4 years of tubeless (slashed a sidewall on a rock in the alps - bunged a tube in carried on).

    Lows:
    Bit of a faff seating new or stubborn tyres (folding high rollers, I'm looking at you!).

    The highs massively outweigh the lows for me. Yes, it can be annoying seating tyres, but once they're on, they're on. I don't change my tyres very often (Ignitors most of the year, some mud(ish) tyres for the worst of winter and something burly for the alps) so I can cope.

    Infinitely better than fixing thorn or snakebite punctures in tyres covered in dog shite while being rained on.

    Dave

    Posted 5 months ago #
18. thisisnotaspoon - Member

    Are there any drawbacks to the feel of the ride? Or any other drawbacks aside from the inconvenience of the initial setup?

    They make everything better, if you take your time fitting them and find tyres that work like maxxis or specialized (I'll be on specialized 2bliss for the foreable future I reckon as they're great tyres and the tubeless bits easy), accept that you might not lose any weight (50g rim strip + 30g of tape + 80g of sealent VS 150g tube) then they're great on the trail, and puncture rarely.

    Tyres rolling off the rim can happen, I had soem conti UST's that did that, but I've never done it with maxxis or spesh tyres and they have far more cornering grip than the old conti's.

    Posted 5 months ago #
19. coffeeking - Member

    Coffeeking, works fine for me. I've had the tyre blow off the rim a couple of times but it's always gone back on with a gas cartridge. I've not had to resort to a tube yet. And I do tend to take the tyre off and change the sealant once every six months or so and never had any nasty clumping. What sealant are you using? Use stan's here but it may be worth trying something different, maybe some of the caffelatex stuff

    But that's just bloody lethal and part of the reason I distrust it - who wants their tyre to blow off at all!? I've never had it with a tubed tyre. And then to have to carry a gas cart and pray it goes back on or have to go through multiple carts, and possibly even carry more fluid? Just asking for troubles and getting stuck 10 miles from help in the cold.

    I also got a slashed sidewall the first time I ran tubeless, but I've had that happen on tubed tyres before so not a fair argument against, but without a tube I wouldn't have been able to stuff some grass and paper in the space and ride home.

    Personally can count on one hand the number of times I've had a snakebite or thorn puncture on the trails in the last 4 years, pros dont outweigh the cons for me. Especially when you then limit the tyres you can use to those that "like" being tubeless - I want to choose tyres that work well, not that let me faff with latex and gas cannisters. Plus, of course, if you're getting snakebites you're likely to damage your rims running pressures that low.

    Posted 5 months ago #
20. njee20 - Member

    The only tyres I've had blow off a rim were road (tubed) tyres. Never done it with tubeless (in over 10 years use) myself, I suspect a lot of the time it's because people are running lower pressures, rather than an inherent flaw of tubeless.

    Stan's rims do work better than any other brand converted, particularly the newer ones. They're lighter too, as the only additional weight is the valve and the sealant (less the tube).

    I suspect there's a technique element too to be honest, I've set up at least 50 different sets of tyres over the years on tonnes of different rims, I've used CO2 maybe half a dozen times, and only used soapy water a few more times. I find the biggest difference is going round the tyre and 'walking' the bead to the outside of the rim, takes 30 seconds, but generally makes inflation instant IME. I can see why people are put off when it doesn't work.

    Posted 5 months ago #
21. mrblobby - Member

    It's only happened to me twice in a few years of running tubeless, and neither time was particularly scary. No worse that a blowout with a tube. Most of the time I'll carry a tube in my pack just in case (slashed sidewalls etc.) Never had cause to use it but wouldn't like to go far without it, just in case. Also using the ghetto tubeless inflator has eliminated any faff for me (was a major faff before that.)

    Maybe I've been lucky over the past couple of years but I don't think there are any cons, and have the pros of not getting any flats and a feeling that the bike is just that bit quicker.

    Posted 5 months ago #
22. stumpy01 - Member

    I tried the ghetto inflater with a 2L soft drink bottle and it didn't work.
    I think it was because I haven't got removable valve core valves, so the air couldn't rush in fast enough. Keep meaning to get some ordered, swap them over & try again....

    Do I need a special tool to remove the core??

    Posted 5 months ago #
23. mrblobby - Member

    Removable valve cores are a must! You can get them off with a pair of pliers but there is also a special tool you can get (Stan's do one.)

    Brought a couple of Specialized tubeless specific valves the other day and was astonished to find they didn't have removable cores, to be avoided. These days mostly just pinch mates old inner tubes that have removable cores and cut out the valve, works fine.

    Posted 5 months ago #
24. thisisnotaspoon - Member

    Shrader valves need a tool, presta valves come out with pliars.

    I tried agheto inflator, but I generaly found that if a track pump want working there were more problems than a lack of air supply. Whenever tubeless has worked for me it's worked perfectly (or not at all), bent or gummed up valves and track pumps on their last legs all work, I can get them up with a hand pump if needs be, just a case of preperation and more electrical tape to pad the rim out.

    Posted 5 months ago #
25. njee20 - Member

    I've never tried removing the valve core - surely the second you remove the pump all the air comes back out so fast the tyre unseats anyway?

    Posted 5 months ago #
26. clubber - Member

    No - it does jet out but so long as you get your finger over reasonably fast, it's fine and you can then quickly put the core in (it stops leaking as soon as the core's in, you don't have to have it screwed in to stop the leak). As a very rough approximation, I pump tyres up to 40psi when seating them. If I have to do it with core removed, the pressure's still over 20psi, usually more like 30psi after I've put the core in.

    Posted 5 months ago #
27. mrblobby - Member

    Find that sometimes I need to take the core out to get enough air in quickly to seat the tyre. Once it's done I let the air out slowly, put the core in, then re-inflate. Usually works fine. If it doesn't then what clubber says also works for me.

    Posted 5 months ago #
28. TurnerGuy - Member

    I've just bought a Joe Blow Mountain pump which has a grater volume targetted at getting tubeless tyres seated - not tried it yet though.

    Had some trouble getting Mud-Xs onto 355/Crest rims with a normal track pump and had to use cartridges.

    Posted 5 months ago #
29. stevepitch - Member

    cheers for the responses guys wasnt looking for advice more hoping to guide those who may be thinking about tubeless themselves but Ive got to say there some excellent advice and given me hope to have another go tonight after the pub

    Out of interest who here is using the stans no tubes strips and has drilled their holes in the rim?

    Posted 5 months ago #
30. clubber - Member

    I am and had to drill one rim on my cx to get it to hold 80psi but strangely the other wheel with same rim and tyre was fine without drilling...

    Posted 5 months ago #
31. micky - Member

    I run proper tubeless and cant see the appeal of the ghetto conversion or conversion kits. I see a million posts from people struggling with getting the wrong tyre to fit onto converted rims and then trying all sorts of bodges to overcome having the correct gear. Buy the right tools for the right job(proper UST rims) No faff ever or compressors etc. Why would you go out and buy a compressor? Just get proper UST rims and forget mess, kits, instructions, time, frustration, compressors and burping tyres.

    Posted 5 months ago #

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