[Closed] help me choose a hardtail frame

PP Oka.

I have a [url= http://www.chromagbikes.com/bikes/samurai65 ]Chromag Samurai65[/url].

It is gratuitously expensive, but ticks all your other boxes. 🙂

I was just going to say Transam... There is one on the wall here which would be perfect, depending on your size of course!

That Chromag is so tasty but so out of my budget…

was looking at a medium, or 'small' large . 17.5 would be ideal i reckon.

never seen that PP Oka yum yum

BTR Ranger, with custom geo if you like.

Stanton switchback, just come back into stock to

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I was going to recommend a Samurai too.

Perhaps the nicest bike I've ever ridden - sadly not mine.

What part is moon on a sticky?

What part is moon on a sticky?

I want to get a hardtail to ride my [b]local dirt spot[/b] , use the [b]pump track[/b]

So that's a jump bike

but also have it set up for actual mountain biking so i can take it to the trails and not be [b]lugging one heavy lump around[/b]

So that's light then.

tapered headtube
650b
[b]142 / 12 mm rear spacing[/b]
120-140mm fork.

Limiting your market with the 142/12mm rear spacing. Common on FS bikes. Becoming more common on Aluminium Hardtails. Very limited on steel hardtails. Long travel steel hardtails are a very British thing. The Americans don't get it. And that is majority, in terms of scale, of the bike manufacturers.

and not cost the earth,

So to recap, steel, cheap, light, strong enough to jump. Pick two.

HTH 🙂

do you want to buy it now or can you wait a bit?

This is what Cy at Cotic says about through axles:

[i]We're being asked a little more these days about whether there's a thru axle option on our hardtails. There currently isn't. It's good old 135mm QR. Below are laid out the reasons why this is the case and we're interested to know what your thoughts are on this; whether you're not bothered, simply would like the option to swap wheels between other bikes with thru axles, or some other reason we haven't thought of yet. So, here's the case for the status quo:

Firstly, from a performance point of view, we don't think there is any point. A hardtail frame is very stiff at the back end and a thru axle will not make any noticeable improvement or different to this. It's not like on a swingarm of a suspension frame where you don't have that intrinsic stiffness, or a fork where it's two long slender legs resisting all the twisting on their own. A Rocket, for example, benefits a great deal from having the Syntace X-12 system we use on that, and none of us here would ride with anything other than a thru axle fork, but that's because the thru axles in those situations bring obvious and marked benefits.

Second reason is weight. One of the things we pride Cotic products on is not carrying unnecessary weight. When we had to add a thicker head tube and gussets to the Soul in 2009 to meet the CEN regulations, we redesigned the dropouts to the current design to offset the weight gain. Our current dropouts with mech hanger weigh just 93 grams. A Hope rear QR skewer weighs 65 grams so you have a system weight of 158 grams. We have been offered a thru axle dropout system from our factory which weighs 187grams and uses a Maxle or E-thru axle. Best case here is the Maxle for weight at 74 grams claimed, although we prefer the e-thru for function which is 97 grms from the XTR version. Even best case it's 261grams, and given our preferred option more likely 284grams. That's a 126 grams weight increase - over 1/4 of a pound! - for no obvious advantage apart from convenience and everyone else is doing it. We find that a bit hard to deal with when we try so hard to keep every gram from our frames, our flagship 853 frames in particular.

We did design a dropout system in steel for when we were looking at possibly doing the Rocket swingarms in steel last year, but even using the X-12 axle which is only 39 grams, the system weight on this was 215 grams, which is still a fair bit heavier at 57 grams more than the regular QR option.

Finally there's cost. To keep these dropouts even remotely sensible weight they're considerably more complex to make than our current dropouts, plus we would have to make more complex mech hangers and also supply an axle with each frame. Rough estimates suggest needing a £50 price increase on frames to include a thru axle, and mech hanger prices in the £20-£25 region, not the current £13 price.

So that's the reasons why for the moment it's staying QR, but we want to know your opinions on this. We sent this out to the mailing list subscribers last week and got a fantastic response (sign up to the mailing list here), mostly supporting our view that 135 QR works great so no need to change. However, there were a number of good points made arguing for thru axles too, so whilst we're not looking to adopt them on the hardtails any time soon it's certainly given us food for thought.

It's possible we might be getting a little too precious about a few grams here and there, so let us know if you think you'd carry the extra weight for the convenience. It's not like we're adversed to adding weight for performance gains. We all have disc brakes, suspension and and dropper seatpost on our bikes, all of which are heavier than the older technology they replaced, but they bring performance gains which are well worth carrying them around. We can't see that with thru axle hardtails yet, but go ahead, tell us we're wrong![/i]

Yeah I know what you're saying with 142 spacing, just I've got some wheels lying around that are 142 so would want to fit those. Suppose I could see if there was an adaptor.

I don't think that using it to ride some dirt and a pump track means I need a jump bike. I'm just riding dirt, not doing anything big or burly really. Shirley a bike exists that can cope with some dirt riding and be useable as a trail bike. And by that I mean set up one x 10 , take a dropper perhaps and not have insane angles that are 'dirt only' with loads of excess metal and gussets and bizznizz.

Budget is up to 500 I guess . So I'm not exactly saying 100 only ...

You've mentioned the Bird Zero, but I think they have plans for a steel hardtail frame - something I saw on their Facebook page about a year ago. Whether that's still a plan I don't know.

Yes sounds tasty... When is the mystical bird available?

Budget of £500 is hardly cheap. 😉

That opens up a whole world of options. My first thought would be a Cotic BFe. But you will have to sort out the 142mm rear end.

What wheels have you got?

Ns bikes eccentric looks a possible solution?

A Bird Zero. Tremendous bike. So much fun!

Dartmoor would be my choice

Yes sounds tasty... When is the mystical bird available?

No idea, it was only the briefest of mentions on their Facebook at least a year ago, but I just thought it worth a mention given your requirements.

@paule that NS bike looks really good. Straight to the top of the class!

Dartmoor Hornet.

See if your hubs can swap to the 135 x 12 standard the bike requires.

Lightweight Alu, tapered head tube, dropper compatible, 120-160mm forks, 26 or 27.5 wheels compatible.

Ditch the rear spacing and look at the new 650 BFe. Fit a RWS type 10mm TA if you really need.

Disclaimer: I have a 10mm RWS TA in the back of my Soul275... Not sure it needs it but it gives me peace of mind.

@vincienup is it the same geo as a soul?

Chromag Wide Angle?

Not steel, and in fine 'I have one so its the best one' stw tradition...

Santa Cruz Chameleon?

I had a similar set of requirements and the Dartmoor Hornet and a new set of end caps for my hub was under £200. Loving it so far.