Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 70 total)
  • Have we done this yet? Israel/Eugenics
  • scaled
    Free Member

    Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent

    There are multiple sources out there. obviously the timing of the release on Sunday isn’t insignificant.
    It certainly seems that they’re using the holocaust remembrance as a ‘take out the trash day’ in the press with the usual cries of anti-Semite ready to go.

    I’m just at a bit of a loss as to how the express both my displeasure and utter lack of shock 🙁

    yossarian
    Free Member

    But why would they do that?

    Jamie
    Free Member

    But why would they do that?

    Maybe something to do with this:

    Nearly 100,000 Ethiopian Jews have moved to Israel under the Law of Return since the 1980s, but their Jewishness has been questioned by some rabbis. Last year, the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who also holds the health portfolio, warned that illegal immigrants from Africa “threaten our existence as a Jewish and democratic state”.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

    yossarian
    Free Member

    *gasps*

    khani
    Free Member

    😯

    their Jewishness has been questioned by some rabbis

    Is there some sort of Jewishness test? That’s been done before iirc…
    .
    .
    .
    Edit, I forgot to say..

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Its quite frightening
    To consoider what they went through and to see what they are willing to do to “protect” their way of life [ like the ayrans????*]
    Those who learn nothing from history are doomeed to repeat the mistakes

    * They are not Nazis but they do seem have a line in the sand way beyond what is acceptable in order to defend themsleves

    Ps You cannot even criticise them

    “Having visited Auschwitz twice – once with my family and once with local schools – I am saddened that the Jews, who suffered unbelievable levels of persecution during the Holocaust, could within a few years of liberation from the death camps be inflicting atrocities on Palestinians in the new State of Israel and continue to do so on a daily basis in the West Bank and Gaza.”

    The MP had to apologise for this- we are reaching US levles of support for Israel where you cannot criticise the state for anything lest you be some sort of anti semitic nazi

    What israel does in the name of “defence” is indefensible – that they would do it to their own people is the only news here

    aracer
    Free Member

    Those who learn nothing from history are doomeed to repeat the mistakes

    It’s amazing how little the jews learnt from the holocaust.

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    Hitler.

    There you go, somebody can do the Godwin post.

    thx1138
    Free Member

    It’s amazing how little the jews learnt from the holocaust.

    What, all Jews?

    duckman
    Full Member

    thx1138 – Member

    It’s amazing how little the jews learnt from the holocaust.

    What, all Jews?

    Posted 3 minutes ago # Report-Post

    Okay then, those living in Israel who support the policies of their government,and those not yet returned to somewhere they once were nomadic farmers 300 years ago but are quite happy with how Israel is getting along…. So shall we just call it the majority?

    grum
    Free Member

    The thing is, surely Israel can’t have it both ways. They constantly try to conflate the state of Israel with Jewishness, so that any criticism can be dismissed as anti-semitism, but then when people do use the two interchangeably people cry anti-semitism again.

    alex222
    Free Member

    So shall we just call it the majority?

    I met a lot in Queenstown. All under 30 not one liked their governments policies or so they told me. So I would say in my experience no not the majority.

    Did I mention I went to Queenstown?

    yossarian
    Free Member

    lets not confuse Israelis with jews per say.

    alex222
    Free Member

    They were Jewish by heritage. They also thought I was Jewish.

    *heads off to Israel*

    piemonster
    Full Member

    😯

    thx1138
    Free Member

    So shall we just call it the majority?

    Let’s not.

    Let’s instead try to find out the truth behind such misinformation, propaganda and lies.

    And let’s not look at the issue in such a binary fashion.

    alex222
    Free Member

    I’m not really going to Israel or think that any of this is good (but I do look Jewish; apparently)

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    Awful stuff, out of the 50’s, but sadly not unknown today:

    Over there..
    and over here

    That Indy paragraph doesn’t make much sense to me- first sentence speaks of immigration under the Law of Returns, the second of illegal immigration. Do both refer to the same group? Can someone clarify.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    There’s a lot of secular and moderate Jews in Israel.
    Sadly, they seem to be getting increasingly marginalised under the present administration.
    Let’s not confuse the current government, the State of Israel and Judaism.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    RS thats a long chat and for another threa dbut lets not pretend they are not all interlinked either.

    Let’s instead try to find out the truth behind such misinformation, propaganda and lies.

    What your misinformation and propganda
    Is it really your view that the majority of jews within israel oppose israel [ the context was set as within israel by duckman]
    Is this an attempt to not discuss what they have done and do and get into a debate about how many support israel?

    And let’s not look at the issue in such a binary fashion.

    I have yet to see you answer the question/speak on the original issue whether Binary or otherwise
    Could you give us a view on that please rather than malke us debate how may jews in israel support what their govt whilst lecturing us on “misinformation”

    thekingisdead
    Free Member

    Let’s not confuse the current government, the State of Israel and Judaism.

    Genuine question: are the “current government” not the government of the State of Israel, and therefore its perfectly reasonable to talk of them in the same breath?

    thx1138
    Free Member

    Is this an attempt to not discuss what they have done and do and get into a debate about how many support israel?

    No. I’m merely asking for people to be more open-minded and informed about the situation, rather than making ignorant offensive comments.

    I’m ‘Jewish’; I am from a Jewish family although I do not practice the religion. I am opposed to the actions of the Israeli government, as I am opposed to the actions of the UK government in many areas. As do many of my friends and family, Jewish or otherwise. Please don’t think that ‘all us Jews’ condone eugenics, genocide and ethnic cleansing. Because we don’t.

    Let’s not confuse the current government, the State of Israel and Judaism.

    Thank you.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    thekingisdead, do you believe Blair represented the views of the UK when he invaded Iraq?
    Would you class the views of the Government as the views of the country?

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I’m ‘Jewish’; I am from a Jewish family although I do not practice the religion. I am opposed to the actions of the Israeli government, as I am opposed to the actions of the UK government in many areas. As do many of my friends and family, Jewish or otherwise. Please don’t think that ‘all us Jews’ condone eugenics, genocide and ethnic cleansing. Because we don’t.

    I think you’re looking for an insult that hasn’t been thrown.

    thx1138
    Free Member

    I think you’re looking for an insult that hasn’t been thrown.

    I’m not.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Rusty – i am answering this only once as I beleive it to be an attempt to move us away from srticising israel here
    In your example if Blair did this once, in israel the policies of land grab, illegal nukes, assinations and general treatment of Palestiniand and illegal settlements and walls ahas been approved by all parties over a 40 – 60 year period. If th epopulus keep voting for leaders that do this it seems reasonable to assume that this is inded what the people actually want – for example here we would accpet the populus want capitlaism with varying degrees of state intervention and support as that is what we keep voting for.

    The continued policies of the israeli state over generations is nothing like a one off policy by Blair – if the statees actions dont represent what they feel why do they keep winning elections on this platform

    ignorant offensive comments

    So on a thread about the Israels secretly enforcing contraception on people due to skin colour [ for purity of the race eh??] you want us to not be offensive 😕
    The comment you seem to have taken offense at was at worst a clumsy statement that said Jews rather than some jews – why os this more offensive than what isreal did her that this is what you chose to comment on?

    Please don’t think that ‘all us Jews’ condone eugenics, genocide and ethnic cleansing. Because we don’t.

    No one has said this and only a racist would think this – its not been said – rather than discuss the actual issue we now have to defend a Hyptothetical attack that never occured rather than what israel did

    Not sure if you are intentionally keeping us away from the issue or not tbh

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Would you class the views of the Government as the views of the country?

    In a debate on a mountain bike forum it’s fair to equate the actions of a government with the State, yes. With every individual Israeli, no, probably not. I think it’s normally easy to spot on a post what the writer thinks. If not, you can always ask for clarification before jumping to any mad conclusions, no?

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I’m not.

    I disagree but I’lll not argue it any further. Just keep a close eye on the thread for us and let us know when somebody whinging about the actions of a state is insulting your religion as I haven’t really seen it yet.

    thx1138
    Free Member

    The comment you seem to have taken offense at was at worst a clumsy statement that said Jews rather than some jews – why os this more offensive than what isreal did her that this is what you chose to comment on?

    It was at best ‘clumsy’, yet it’s a tired old line that’s trotted out every time there is an issue with Israel. For the record, I think the current Israeli government is an abhorrent, vile, disgusting regime which stifles true democracy in Israel (Isreali friends and family are somewhat more vehement in their criticism). This story is yet another in a seemingly never-ending catalogue of abuses committed by the Israeli government and state (by ‘state’ I mean institutions such as the police and military).

    I’m not defending the Israeli government/state in anyway. Quite the opposite. So please don’t assume I am, merely because I objected to a ‘clumsy’ statement. Am I not allowed to do so?

    grum
    Free Member

    yet it’s a tired old line that’s trotted out every time there is an issue with Israel.

    So is crying anti-semitism all the time.

    And as above – unfortunately the Israeli state has been quite successful in conflating Israel’s actions with the Jewish people, as a shield against criticism.

    brakes
    Free Member

    the article doesn’t say that the government ordered the use of birth control, but it does say that it has ordered the practice to cease.
    but I imagine any such health ‘policy’ wouldn’t be a written one.
    either way, it’s utterly atrocious, and no way of reducing the influx of illegal immigrants.

    yossarian
    Free Member

    And as above – unfortunately the Israeli state has been quite successful in conflating Israel’s actions with the Jewish people, as a shield against criticism.

    Backed up to the hilt by America and other so called civilised nations.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    True that The US unswerving support of , and aid to , Israel is not helpful
    Neither is their much criticism from other jewish groups [ i know htere is some but its only a minority.
    FWIW the US has vetoed more UN security mandates than all the other nations combined and iirc 80% of them were related to Israel.

    If iran [ or any other country in the region]did what Israel does we would be at war – political assainations abroad, illgal nukes, land grabs from its neighbours, UN violations etc
    There is no moral principle at work here that i can see and its daft to scream racist if we question what they do
    I dont get why the west allows israel to do this its indefensible

    thx1138
    Free Member

    So is crying anti-semitism all the time.

    So ‘all Jews’ are ‘crying Anti-Semitism’ all the time then?

    I’m not.

    I dont get why the west allows israel to do this its indefensible

    Money and power. Same as why terrible working conditions/Human Rights abuses/hunger/disease/war are overlooked in many other parts of the World. I assume none of you criticising Israel own anything made or produced in China/India/Africa then?

    Lifer
    Free Member

    Brilliant.

    grum
    Free Member

    So ‘all Jews’ are ‘crying Anti-Semitism’ all the time then?

    Another straw man argument there. Where on earth do you think I said that?

    I assume none of you criticising Israel own anything made or produced in China/India/Africa then?

    Are you including yourself in that? Are only Jews allowed to criticise Israel? 😕

    You can’t say anything negative about one thing without simultaneously criticising everything else in the world worthy of criticism? 😕

    hels
    Free Member

    I’d watch out there grum, you will prove that black is white, and get killed on a pedestrian crossing.

    thx1138
    Free Member

    Another straw man argument there. Where on earth do you think I said that?

    I didn’t say you did. I was merely using the logic displayed by another poster of lumping all those of a particular race in together.

    Are you including yourself in that? Are only Jews allowed to criticise Israel?

    I have no problem with you criticising Israel.

    yossarian
    Free Member

    Money and power. Same as why terrible working conditions/Human Rights abuses/hunger/disease/war are overlooked in many other parts of the World. I assume none of you criticising Israel own anything made or produced in China/India/Africa then?

    I don’t think they are overlooked actually. The disgusting treatment of the Palestinian people by the state of Israel are crimes against humanity. What happens in other parts of the world doesn’t justify the murder of civilians, illegal land grabs , assassinations and violations of nuclear non proliferation treaties.

    Personally I’d say its the responsibility of all people of jewish origin, regardless of where they live, to put pressure on the state of Israel to remember the lessons of the past and change the future.

    You are either complicit in genocide or you aren’t.

    Lifer
    Free Member

    So depressingly predictable.

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