Have any small town centres thrived when an out of town supermarket arrives?

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  • Have any small town centres thrived when an out of town supermarket arrives?
  • andywill
    Member

    A new out of town development of a large supermarket, petrol station & many houses is proposed for our small town (Shiston on Stour, pop 7,000 I think). It has, at the moment a busy & thriving town centre with many varied small shops & 2 convenience stores. Local opposition to the store is very high ( I am against it also). Does anyone know of any town centres that have managed to survive the arrival of an out of town supermarket?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Yep, the town centre just changes usage. Going to town is no longer about shopping for essentials, it’s an activity in itself. So people go to town to eat, drink, meet people, walk around etc. Expect more coffee shops, homewares, that kind of thing.

    jota180
    Member

    Don’t worry

    If there really is a massive opposition to the supermarket – it’ll fail as everyone will simply continue to use the high street

    if – on the other hand – there’s a bunch of ‘concerned’ people trying to save the majority of the population from themselves by trying to stop the supermarket coming, you may struggle

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Yep, the town centre just changes usage. Going to town is no longer about shopping for essentials, it’s an activity in itself. So people go to town to eat, drink, drink, drink, fight, drink, drink, vomit, hospitalise each other, get mugged meet people, walk around etc. Expect more coffee shops, homewares, that kind of thing Weatherspoons.

    FTFY 😉

    AndyP
    Member

    not really a town centre but where I live the arrival of a supermarket in the next village was seen as the coming of the apocalypse. 18 months on everything is basically the same as it was, apart from you can now pay much less for loo roll and cat food. And I have seen an awful lot of the NIMBYS shopping in there.

    rootes1
    Member

    stopped in Cullompton the other day – new tescos is in walking distance to highstreet… high street was desolate, tescos packed

    joao3v16
    Member

    If there really is a massive opposition to the supermarket – it’ll fail as everyone will simply continue to use the high street

    What will actually happen in reality, is that everyone who was up in arms and enraged about it will still shop there cos it’s cheaper and convenient and easy to park … hooray for the Great British apathy!!

    trail_rat
    Member

    arbroath has a tescos , morrisons and a now an asda

    town centre is now charity shops, pound shops, card shops, holiday shops and abandoned shops.

    you cant buy clothes , CDs , dvds, electrical goods or many other things in town now. You can have what ever tat tesco/asda/morrisons have – so i end up driving to dundee to get what ever i want.

    similar happened in aberdeen with union square coming – union street is like a ghost town people wise.

    hora
    Member

    Op for shame, the supermarkets bring many many new part time jobs to the area 😆

    jota180
    Member

    What will actually happen in reality, is that everyone who was up in arms and enraged about it will still shop there cos it’s cheaper and convenient and easy to park … hooray for the Great British [strike]apathy[/strike] hypocrisy!!

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Hora’s right. Soon 97% of the country will work for Tesco’s. The 3% who don’t will be considered an aloof and distant elite! For they work for Starbucks, and get a full 6p above minimum wage, taking them unfortunately into the top tax bracket, so they lose their child benefit.

    Serve’s ’em right! The rich bastards!

    jota180
    Member

    For they work for Starbucks, and get a full 6p above minimum wage

    That’ll be the top earners TJ rabbit’s on about

    ohnohesback
    Member

    I’ve got an invention that will bring the whole coffee shop pyramid economy crashing down…

    It’s called a thermos flask.

    hora
    Member

    TJ moonlights in the adult industry. Don’t you think the two look soooo alike?

    jota180
    Member

    Is he still going [or should that be coming?] Hora?

    I would have thought the requirement for short, ugly & old fellas was somewhat diminished when Viagra was invented

    hora
    Member

    Who TJ? Well he posts alot on here so I imagine the movies are drying up now 😆

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    as are a lot of his co-stars

    grum
    Member

    Well, I have seen it suggested that for every job created by a supermarket, 5 are lost in local shops/businesses – also on average supermarkets employ one person per £250,000 of turnover, whereas a local shop might employ one person per £50,000 of turnover. Not sure where these stats are from, it was in a letter in the Guardian the other day. 😉

    Where I live there are now two MASSIVE Sainsburys within about 3 miles of each other, as well as various other big supermarkets – and people wonder why local shops are struggling/closing down.

    I try and use local shops as much as possible, but laziness means I often do use the supermarkets. I guess that makes me a hypocrite but I don’t really care. Better to try and support local shops and not always manage it than to just not give a shit, IMO.

    jota180
    Member

    I imagine the movies are drying up now

    I suspect he has dried up by now

    trail_rat
    Member

    mean while i am forced to use the supermarkets as a subject of timing and lack of choice due to location – im still sure to use a checkout with a human at it over queuing for the self service.

    help keep someone in a job at least ! wont be long before robots are doing it all !

    andywill
    Member

    The town has a good feel to it, but It does not have a tourist trade to buffer the local trades people against a large supermarket as competition.
    Supermarkets have no concern for the local community, there only concern is to make a profit. I am sure the feel & nature of the businesses in town would change & not for the good.
    I always try to use the local shops where I can, but will only pay so much over the “odds”.

    Houns
    Member

    Work is just starting in Stourbridge for the new tesco. Should revamp the centre quite well and bring more people in to the town.
    I’ll use their carpark to pop in to waitrose

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    TJ moonlights in the adult industry. Don’t you think the two look soooo alike?

    dunno. never seen him with his clothes on.

    jota180
    Member

    Supermarkets have no concern for the local community, there only concern is to make a profit

    I’d level that claim at the majority of small shops too

    AndyP
    Member

    I’d level that claim at the majority of small shops too
    precisely. The ones who do give a sh1t are the ones who thrive.

    rootes1
    Member

    at least a waitrose is not as evil as a tescos

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Is there some kind of evil league table?

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    It will, ultimately, be a walkover for the supermarket. – if they want in they’ll get in. The notion of the creation of ‘local jobs’ is an easy sell. Most people don’t really understand the difference between a local job and local business and how one generates wealth locally and the other pays a wage with all the profits leaving town.

    How it effects the rest of the town depends on what the town is like already. As a touristy town as you’re suggesting then some businesses – cafes, chintz, gifty stuff – will be unperturbed. Some on your better local suppliers – if you have good grocers, butchers, fishmongers etc, then unless they really do get tourist dollars then you’ll probably see them go to the wall. The smart ones will close their doors the night before the supermarket opens rather than slowly go to the wall.

    Much depends on what the supermarket sells as well as groceries – will they do fuel? (your local shell/bp garage will actually be locally owned) pharmacy? dry cleaning? etc etc. If those businesses go – what fills the void? Will as many visitors come for tea and cake and giftys between empty facades?

    The change for you as a resident is you’ll have town full of nice shops selling nice thingys that you won’t have a need to buy, and not selling the things you would.

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    Double post

    so heres a pretty picture instead

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    So if people save money by shopping at Tesco, what are they going to do with the money they’ve saved?

    I am not sure how much we need to artificially preserve certain business models.

    In most areas of business you need to innovate and adapt to survive. Is that not possible with small shops? (academic question, not troll)

    jota180
    Member

    Is there some kind of evil league table?

    Tesco
    Hitler
    Ernst Blofeld
    TJ
    Thatcher
    Waitrose
    Asda
    Morrisons

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    Is that not possible with small shops? (academic question, not troll)

    Its quite possible, but……. The big players tactics aren’t to compete, they are to remove any competition. Bloodletting – offering goods below cost price is one way, the big shops also have a strangle hold on much of the supply chain, so sourcing goods to sell is another problem for small shops.

    My local shop in glasgow when lived there used to sell delicious bread – this is just a little urban everything-shop, not some noncy deli. I went in one day and they guy was really depressed. He’d had daily deliveries of bread that had dropped to twice a day, then to weekly and he’d just been told that was dropping to fortnightly. All the output of the bakery had been diverted to one supermarket branch, 400 miles away in Camden.

    The farms around me here in ayrshire are all owned by Morrisons (even though I don’t have any branches locally – not something to be upset about) so the whole supply chain from the earth up is isolated from small businesses.

    I have to wonder when the banks were considered ‘too big to fail’ at what point we have to start to view and regulate the big supermarkets, with a near monopoly on or food supply and production as Utilities rather than just as grocers

    AndyP
    Member

    Tesco
    Hitler
    Ernst Blofeld
    TJ
    Thatcher
    Waitrose
    Asda
    Morrisons

    Erm, you have Th*tcher below Hitler. Otherwise good.

    grum
    Member

    So if people save money by shopping at Tesco, what are they going to do with the money they’ve saved?

    Spend it on products from other giant chains, foreign holidays and foreign cars?

    I am not sure how much we need to artificially preserve certain business models.

    In most areas of business you need to innovate and adapt to survive. Is that not possible with small shops? (academic question, not troll)

    The large supermarkets have a massively unfair advantage though. Tesco accounts for something like 30% of all grocery shopping in the UK – how can a local shop possibly hope to compete with those economies of scale and purchasing/bargaining power? Would you prefer it if there were no independent shops at all?

    The smart ones will close their doors the night before the supermarket opens rather than slowly go to the wall.

    This is what the (excellent) local grocers did when a supermarket opened in my home town.

    AndyP
    Member

    how can a local shop possibly hope to compete with those economies of scale and purchasing/bargaining power?
    a) quality and b) customer service.

    jota180
    Member

    The smart ones will close their doors the night before the supermarket opens rather than slowly go to the wall

    and the really smart ones look to sell things and services that the supermarket won’t/can’t provide

    grum
    Member

    how can a local shop possibly hope to compete with those economies of scale and purchasing/bargaining power?
    a) quality and b) customer service.

    That’s all well and good up to a point – people tend to vote with their wallets though.

    and the really smart ones look to sell things and services that the supermarket won’t/can’t provide

    Given that supermarkets are attempting to sell pretty much everything under the sun – how much will there be left that they won’t/can’t provide?

    AndyP
    Member

    That’s all well and good up to a point – some people tend to vote with their wallets though.
    FTFY. Talking to our butcher, nothing has changed for him since it opened. He sells more expensive and higher quality meat than Tescos. Those people who got their meat from a supermarket previously still do, but they don’t drive 15 miles to do it any more. Those people who like quality products still shop there.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    The big players tactics aren’t to compete, they are to remove any competition.

    Then don’t be competition. Figure out what people want and give it to them. That may no longer be fruit and veg or cheap sausages mind.

    If the people in your town want nothing in life besides cheap groceries, then you are a bit screwed and you possibly have bigger problems.

    Given that supermarkets are attempting to sell pretty much everything under the sun

    They only sell basic stuff though. If you want more than that you have to go to a specialist. Our big Tesco sells bikes, computers, TVs, books, etc. However they are crap bikes, cheapo tellies and computers, a handful of the best seller list etc. If you want more you need specialist shops.

    jota180
    Member

    Given that supermarkets are attempting to sell pretty much everything under the sun

    To a degree but the ones that tend to get into small towns aren’t the mega markets you get in the cities
    I know a local butcher that is doing very well after diversifying into a small cafe/sandwich shop
    I wouldn’t go to a supermarket for a sandwich, too much hassle

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