I am considering either one of these frames as a new purchase. I can test an Orange from my lbs but I don't think I am going to get a chance of testing a Turner that easily as there are not any dealers close enough to me to do it soon and if I'm going to buy one it would have to be whilst the 25% off ones are available at CRC/Merlin as they would be out of my price range otherwise (& also morally struggle with testing at one place and buying elsewhere).

Senario:-
All the (compatible) componentry will be swapped out of my ti456 inc 140mm air pikes, hope m4s & flow rims.

It will be one of a pair with an Alfined Niner Sir9 taking care of winter mud/ flatter local duties. It will be used for trail centres, natural stuff in "proper" mountainy areas inc muti days bivi trips & maybe the odd adventure race if I can be arsed (but not taken very seriously).

I'm a vaguely athletic 14 stone wheels mostly on or near the ground guy who tentatively survives blacks but secretly prefers blasting reds.

I'm currently torn – the 5 spot looks good if slightly heavy (as am I) with efficient suspension. Concerned about the long head tube though as I prefer my bars not too high. The Orange looks don't appeal but its made in Britain sticker does. Not so sure about going back to a single pivot and I had promised myself the next bike would have an adjustable seatpost but the Orange is 27.2mm which means it's GD only and aesthetically I just can't!

Thanks for any insight.

I've owned both a mojo SL (dw link) and a 5 all mountain if that helps?

It's a start! Differences in ride between the DW link and the mid/high level single pivot? Any more noticeable bob?

All I can say is that I won't buy another single pivot bike.

My orange was a 2009 so it was pre boost valve bear in mind.

The orange felt over-damped and a bit wooded in comparison. The dw felt great, rolled over sqaure edges perfectly (compared to my blur LTc which has VPP2) and felt very plush – it also climbed great (I never used pro pedal)

I rode with marco (ciclo Montana) in sierra Nevada and the decents are longer/more sustained/gnarly than in the UK and the climbs are bigger/steeper/longer than here and he said the 5spot was the perfect bike (his weighed 30lbs)
I was inclined to agree as he was ace.

One positive with the orange is that it only has 2 bearings and they are a piece of pi$$ to replace.

EDIT- I also believe that the 5spots have a slightly revised DW design which is better than the 5year old version on the mojo.

Thanks for all that – very helpful.

What is wrong with your 456Ti?

I've one of these and there isn't nothing that friends on FS's (including Orange 5's) can do that can't be comfortably done on the 456Ti.

And 27.2 dropping seatposts exist.

http://www.pure-race.com/Products.html

You are right, the ti456 is a truly great bike…..However in an illogical move, now I have the Niner owning 2 hardtails rather than a hard and a fs does not seem right. You are right that the ti456 can go anywhere a fs can, but since switching I've gone from front of the pack with the people I ride with to middle/back – probably says more about my (lack of) riding skills than the bike though. Definitely a very involving ride though which is always a good thing.

Re the link – I have heard nothing but bad things about pure/superstar both in terms of component life and customer service when the inevitable happens.

I have a DW spot and had two demo days on an orange 5 if that counts? I also owned a Ti456 for a year 😳

Anyway, my tuppence worth: The DW climbs, descends and feels all together better than the Orange did. I really like the simplicity of the 5 but it is heavily reliant on propedal to stop bob, whereas I have never felt the need to use it on the Spot. You also get legendary customer service with the Turner that the Orange allegedly lacks and the bushings are easily a match against the single pivot for ease of maintenance in crappy conditions.

FWIW, the Ti456 is a massively capable bike and whilst it is probably capable of doing everything that a 5" suspension bike can do, it cant do it with the comfort or speed that susser can. (with my limited skills)

Thanks Duggie – I could not have asked for a more similar/informed passer by!

One last thing – what sizes were you on the Orange & Ti456 and what size of spot did you go for?

Many thanks.

You know that bikes these days are so good that there is almost an argument for not worrying about the choice and simply buying on what you like the look of and, perhaps most importantly of all, what fits. I think it's perfectly reasonable to buy a bike whithout ever having ridden it as long as you know it's the right size and you like the idea of 'owning' it.
I know that that's a terribly unorthodox idea, but it's based on the intitial premise that frames these days are so good that you could quite easily adapt your riding style to almost any design.

I tried both an 18 and 20 inch orange and neither felt perfect; the 18 was more nimble yet too short and the 20 was a better long day bike but a bit gate like. I am 6'3" and my Ti456 was an 18 and I know it was a bit small for me but, going down hill it never mattered 😀

After pondering for a long time, I went for the 21" Spot due to the TT length and recommendations on the MTBR forums/Turner website. The Turners have huge standover clearance so don't worry about going up to a size to what you are riding now; the size guide on the Turner site was spot on (no pun) for me.

I have a medium dw spot and it is superb, mine weighs about 29lbs with kings hubs, fox 36's, 5.1 rims, xtr everything except rear mech where i have a saint. It climbs well, descends brilliantly, is very stiff and just feels right.
Go for the turner every time IMO.
cheers
shiny

Wow 6'3" on an 18" ti456 – I thought it was quite short (with a 70mm stem admittedly) and I'm just less than 6'. I think I'll be a 19" on a Turner.

travelling demo, including a medium turner 5 spot…
http://www.premierdemoseries.com/

Isn't the best bit of a new bike the deciding – so exciting! Maybe its a bloke/geek thing?

Anyway, I've added the Blur lt to the list. Any views on vpp vs dw? Same 4 bar parentage with slightly different development. As Gee said above, they are all probably good enough these days – but where is the fun in that!

And to round it off I've discovered the Mountain Trax shop not a million miles away from me with Orange 5, 5 spot and Blur available to test, although the 5 spot is really a size too small. And I'm off work for the next 2 weeks to try and get a test ride in.

Life is good!

I have ridden an iron horse mkIII with dw link quite a bit and also owned a trance x, again a very similar suspension design to the dw link. I now own an orange five. In all honesty, i wouldn't go back. Since owining the five i haven't even looked at another frame/brand.
I do a mixture of riding on it; all day trail center stuff to dh & dirt jumping and it feels good on everything. Nice and simple too. Allround very confidence inspiring bike.
I have not noticed any bob (2010 frame), to be honest i think bob is pretty much non existent in most frames due to suspension technology.

I certainly prefer the single pivot over the other suspension designs out there. Always nice and active, very plush…it just works!

Excellent – thanks for a differing opinion Hugh.

I've just arranged a back to back test of all 3 (Orange 5, 5 spot & blur lt) @ Swinley later in the week. Not of fan of the place and all 3 bikes are a bit much for that location I think, but better than rolling around a car park. If you are a local and see a lost looking bloke on a shiny bike, point him in the direction of the downy bits.

This does mean I'll have buy local as I'm not a fan of those that partake of the generous facilities of local shops then buy elsewhere for cheaper.

For a bike of such great capabilities the Turner has too steep a head angle and too short a front centre, the five has better geometry slacker, lower BB and longer front centre. The fun starts when these bikes are pointed down hill and the slacker Orange is better for the fun part, uphills depend on good engine and balance in the trick bits, never been convinced any of the rear suspensions make that much difference uphill at slow speeds.

Current bike is a DW 5 Spot and last bike was an Orange 5 (08 model). The 5 Spot rear suspension is certainly better at climbing and it seems more stable at speed. You'd be welcome to have a go off it if you are ever up my way (scotland).

convert – how did the test of all 3 go? Interested as all 3 would be on my short list for 2011.

Possibly discounting frames or seatposts on looks is something we have all been guilty of at some time or other. For example the gravity dropper is at the moment as far as I can tell the only seatpost of it's kind that actually works. Surely discounting an item that for most of your riding you won't be looking is a silly thing to do. It's reliable, very easy to fix and can be shimmed to fit any frame.

Then there is the 5. Looks are very subjective (I think it looks nice) but just look at the geometry, warranty, simplicity of design, ease of service, British design……tick, tick, tick. It's no good having the latest pretty poser machine if it rides crap and falls apart when you ride it.

For me(here in Scotland) I can find no better machine for riding proper mountains all day and being able to rag it like my downhill bike. The 5 will be my next purchase, a decision based not on looks but needs.

As an alternative to the Orange 5, have you considered the Santa Cruz Heckler?
I ride a large, I'm 5'11", 14 stone. RP23 rear shock but don't use the propedal, always have it switched off, & have it fitted with a Maverick Speedball seatpost.
Its a fanatastic bike, you should try one as opposed to an Orange 5.
(And my other bike is a DW Flux )

this is a real no brainer

5 spot or an orange 5, come on will somebody get real?

trailmoggy MBR mag did and said the Orange 5 frame was better
but both frames have been tweeked since 2008

Best thing is to test them both as you are and go from there.

trailmoggy – Member

this is a real no brainer

5 spot or an orange 5, come on will somebody get real?
Go on…

Convert I bought a Five frame on the back of the 10/10 reviews and everyone raving about them.

I didn't like the longer than it feels top tube on the 18", the brake jack, the low BB and the slack head angle. It just didn't feel right at all. Plus I did ding the underside of the downtube. The interview with the fabrication guy at Orange rankled me alittle when he said they design that part to avoid such things as dents.

On the brakejack- yes it doesn't suffer it at all if you let off the brakes and go for it. However how many average riders do you know that trail their rear brake at somepoint on descents? I do. It hits you harder if you use the rear brake than other full sussers IMO. Possibly the design and the single pivot nature?

I also had a 18" Ti456 and strangely I mucho enjoy my 16" 456 compared for sizing. Don't know if this helps in anyway.

Anyway- the Five just didn't feel right at all. Santa Cruz do it better for me.

Hi mate I have a five and a mojo, so got a dw link bike. Firstly the service from orange for me was really really good havent got a bad word to say about them.

As for riding, the mojo is a great bike they 5 and mojo both are set up with the same forks etc the new fives 2010 are a lot slacker now 67.5 I think but are a blast to ride down hill I have no issues with brake jack or bob i do use the pro pedal on the climbs and tight stuff but thats how like the bike to feel as I ride for big down drops etc I switch it off.

Dw is very good too like the supplness of the sus seems good on the squarer stuff the back end is more skittish I find though.

To be honest and this is a refection of me maybe, I would keep the five over the mojo any day its a very confident sharp bike and is the best I've ridden, incuding mojo lapeirre heckler spesh, i just love that bike. The low BB just takes some getting used to I found my thrid rid out and i didnt get this issue.

So in short no I'm no help!

Ps. Don't ride them round a block. It HAS to be offroad 😀

2nd hora, I got the five for a whole weekend from my lbs orange have a load of demos did local trails more twisty single track stuff and then afan more wide open faster stuff! so I really had a chance to ride the bike properly.

You know that bikes these days are so good that there is almost an argument for not worrying about the choice and simply buying on what you like the look of and, perhaps most importantly of all, what fits. I think it's perfectly reasonable to buy a bike whithout ever having ridden it as long as you know it's the right size and you like the idea of 'owning' it.
I know that that's a terribly unorthodox idea, but it's based on the intitial premise that frames these days are so good that you could quite easily adapt your riding style to almost any design.

I sort of get this argument but to me, it's not about whether there are any utterly bad bikes out there but finding one that suits.

For example, I tested a Yeti 575 a couple of years ago. It's a fine back with many dedicated followers but I couldn't wait to give it back.

Or as another example (slightly removed), I've skied quite a lot of skis in the 80-85mm range this winter. You could make the case that there are no bad skis these days too but I loved the Dynastar Sultan 85 and really didn't like the Fisher Watea 84 (like the Yeti, highly rated).

So, IMO, testing is actually more important these days when everything's good and it comes down to preference.

Now then, ask me if I've ever tested any of my road or mountain bikes…

You know that bikes these days are so good that there is almost an argument for not worrying about the choice and simply buying on what you like the look of and, perhaps most importantly of all, what fits. I think it's perfectly reasonable to buy a bike whithout ever having ridden it as long as you know it's the right size and you like the idea of 'owning' it.
I know that that's a terribly unorthodox idea, but it's based on the intitial premise that frames these days are so good that you could quite easily adapt your riding style to almost any design.

Missed this post. Totally and utterly disagree. The increments are tighter but there are always bikes that you throw a leg over and think 'wow, this just feels right'- you are both sat in and feel at ease.

Other new bikes always feel like you are riding someone elses.

Plus manufacturing sizing charts are based on their collective opinions and on average heights? across a range. Not everyone has the same instep for their height either.

love both but really the DW link is far and away about it in terms of ride.

in the UK it wont make that much difference but on longer european decents the dw link is far better.

I have owned, bikes with virtually every linkage and pivot set up on the market and to be honest once the shock was set up they were all great.

Linkage bikes do feel like the pedal better but thats not to say they actually do. Just make sure you sheel out the cash for a a custom tuned rear shock.

You know that bikes these days are so good that there is almost an argument for not worrying about the choice and simply buying on what you like the look of and, perhaps most importantly of all, what fits. I think it's perfectly reasonable to buy a bike whithout ever having ridden it as long as you know it's the right size and you like the idea of 'owning' it.
I know that that's a terribly unorthodox idea, but it's based on the intitial premise that frames these days are so good that you could quite easily adapt your riding style to almost any design.

I partially agree on this. Damping has come a long way and frames are all well designed so in theory, yes any frame will be good and you can just adapt a tiny bit. However as someone said above sometimes you sit on a bike and just recoil in disgust becuase it just doesn't feel right for you. Sizing charts are all rubbish, they are based on average heights and road bike sizing.

sorry wrong post.