Will be in the lakes for the Evans ride it event this weekend was just wondering just how hard these two hills will be – on the videos for the Fred Whitton then most people seem to be walking up Hardknott…is it really that difficult or is it more a case of accumulated fatique with the 100 miles or whatever beforehand?

it really is that difficult.

Bugger…was hoping that wasn’t the case and it was all due to a punishing ride before!

1:3 in places, I’ll be driving over there at weekend to get to the Eskdale railway with my little uns, I can always give you a tow!

Good luck with it 😀

it is hard I remember swearing all the way up at near stalling speed just to top out. Very steep and tired legs will not help.

I’ve ridden Wynrose on my MTB, its just a big hill.

Here’s a couple of write ups of the Fred from one of our strongest, quickest and nationally ranked riders.

2010

2009

I’ve not done anything harder than HK.

Oops double post..

The Wrynose is fine, did it on the tandem this year with my 8Yo little girl. – We pedalled all the way up.

Didn’t do the Hardknott, but carried on down the Duddon valley and back via Coniston for what was effectively a “Grand Tour” of the Old Man.

it’s quite big, depends what you’re used to.
Few years ago it was too icy to drive over HK, so stopped at bottom and rode over to Boot, then did the planend off road route, then back over HK. Long day but nice.

Did it more recently and it seemed quite easy, however I do now live in scotland…

I’ve only ever done them as part of Sportives (Fred Whitton and The Lakeland Loop) and TBH the main problem is other riders and traffic.

If you get a clear run and can keep the pedals turning it’s OK (albeit one of the hardest hills you will ever ride!), it’s when there’s other riders falling off sideways, stalling, walking and traffic trying top come down it that problems really start.

If you’ve got the option of a wider cassette (27 or 28T sprocket), fit that.

It is hard, no question. I’ve done it a few times now, on training rides and on the FW. If you can pace yourself (as the first section is pretty steep in itself), then you should be fine, as you need to stop blowing up in the first 2-3 hairpins.

I couldn’t believe how many people were walking it on the FW – at a very rough guess around 80%.

1 in 3 is really very steep! how long is it? (in miles or whatever)

looks like i’ll be taking the bike with the compact + 27 cassette. And hope the road stays clear. At those sorts of gradients if you stop then just wont be able to get going again

It seemed very hard on the FW but I think having caned the previous 100 miles was certainly a factor. Wrynose would be a comparative doddle if done in isolation without having nailed Hardknott 10mins previously. I set off quite late and there were piles of puke in a few spots which gives you an idea how tough some people were finding it. The road also has a lot of marks on it from cars wheel spinning and struggling for grip on hot days when the tarmac is a bit soft (not often in the Lakes!).

Gears available obviously makes a big difference too – the bottom gear on a 3 ring mtb (22X32T) is about half the development of even a compact setup on a road bike (34x27T) which makes the achievement on a mtb hardly comparable.

All I know is that it’s steep and you wouldn’t catch me trying HK. you can smell the clutches and brakes on all the cars going past!

what ton said.

I’d like to try them from fresh but where they come in the FW certainly did for me. If you’ve not almost pulled your brake hoods off and/or lost control of your bowels by the top you’ve done well IMO 😀

They’re not that bad, come on. After 100 miles, I usually cramp trying, but fresh, they’re fine.

I think Hardknott is probably the toughest road climb I’ve done. Low gearing is a great help because it’s so steep. I really need to pace myself on it because there is one really steep bit which I seem to struggle on. I’ve never attempted it with 100miles already in my legs either, that must really hurt. Wrynose afterwards is quite easy, but it does depend on the condition the earlier climb left your legs in. The descent down off Hardknott is twisty and by contrast Wrynose is full on fast on a bumpy surface.
They are both fun riding though and I always feel pleased with myself when I clear Hardknott.

I rode them last year the week before the Fred and did them as part ofthe full Fred route (though going up the Struggle instead of the main easier climb up Kirkstone as i started in Ambleside). To be honest, they’re just hills. Go at race pace and they will hurt. Take it easier and they really aren’t that bad. Steep but on my crosser, they were fine and nowhere near as bad as you would think. I reckon they might be harder going the other way as the kick up from the Coniston side looked mighty steep when I looked back up the hill.

All climbs are hard in a 53-11!

The steepness both up and down of Hardknott Pass fried the auto gearbox on my Renault 5 years and years ago. It really is that steep!

Depends which way you do them.

If you do them in the FW they arent too bad, hardknott is ok cos its steep but then you get a nice long breather before it gets steep again at the end. Wrynose is next to nowt.

Most people on the FW are shit and dont even bother trying, its like they see the sign for hardknott at the bottom and think “oh this is that tough hill we’re meant to get off and push up”

But I did see one guy fall off in front of me because he couldnt turn his pedals anymore. I use 34/27, perfect.

I think Wrynose from langdale is the hardest one of the lot, no rest just straight up.

Anyone compare it to any of the Scottish stinkers (i.e. ones I might have ridden)? Toughest I’ve ridden so far is Kenmore – Amulree, either direction, another one where you can smell clutches/brakes at the bottom.

I’ve done them on my touring bike, which does have lower gears than the average road bike – think I had 26×30 when I was there. That was with luggage mind. With “race” gearing I’d imagine it would be quite a slog. Well worth it though – when I was there ages ago there was a sign at the last junction before Hardknot that said something along the lines of “are you sure you really want to go this way?”. TBH I’d be far more worried about doing it in a car than on a bike!

I don’t know any of the Scottish hills to compare it with – there are plenty of 1:4 hills near me, and a couple of 1:3, but HK was steep for longer than anything else I’ve ridden. Looks very intimidating as you approach it. There’s a longish 1:3 hill at Millook on the north coast of Cornwall that I’ve ridden a few times, but I think HK was harder.

I did HK first, BTW (it’s apparently harder the other way)

I have only walked up these two (on day/week walks, not cycling), IMHO they are tough. They are certainly some of the steepest roads I have experienced in the UK and I know the peak district and Wales well, but have little experience of Scotland. If you’ve ever been on a road ride round the peaks and found them hard, I would suggest that you will find HK and Wrynose harder. They certainly feel longer than anything in the peak,steepness is probably similar.

I almost made it up to the top of Honnistor on an MTB but had to stop and walk last half mile or so I reckon. I did have a big rucksack with probably far too much stuff in as it was me and my mates first big bike tour.

It’s hard but perfectly doable. During the war my uncle did his lorry training in the area and the test was to drive a loop including Hardknott from the west in a 3.5 ton army lorry with very little steering lock. Apparently each hairpin took 4 or 5 goes to get round. Oh, and the road wasn’t metalled then either.
Rather him than me.

So after riding it my conclusion is that it is bastarding hard

Was a pretty hilly 50 miles before hand but even with fresh legs i would have struggled big time. First section was hard (102% of what i thought was my max HR) – had to dab here – i seriously thought i was going to crap myself with the effort put in and was looking for the nearest bush or rock to hide behind. Fortunately didnt, soon as i stopped the feeling went. Starting up again was tricky The middle section is gradual enough to get a bit of recovery. The last third though…****. It is intimidating looking up seeing the cars coming down ahead, psychologically found it slightly less hard than the first section though – knew the top was soon and could take the hairpin then big effort to the next hairpin, go round the flatish bit then another big effort. Very difficult…overall found it harder than l’alpe d’huez and ventoux which ive managed to struggle up without putting a foot down (although i was fitter and lighter when i did them so maybe not a fair comparision)

The descent over the other side wasn’t much fun at all too busy with cars and very steep.

Did you ride it today? Cracking weather for it. I was going to do Wrynose from langdale to get home but decided my legs and heart just wasnt in it so went back via coniston instead

For a first effort that;’s very good going!

The descent over the other side wasn’t much fun at all too busy with cars and very steep.

Yeah, you can’t rest on the descents at all, it’s on the brakes almost all the way down and the road surface is crap.
A friend got helicoptered off the Hardknott descent a few years ago on the FW, she wrecked her bike completely when she overshot one of the bends. But I decided not to tell you that beforehand! 😉

Yeah it was today, started of a bit rainy but otherwise a great day for it.

There was a really nice descent shortly before getting to Boot – think the climb started turning out of Ulpha which was a difficult climb up to the moor for a section then down, fast, sweepy and very enjoyable.

From what i heard someone had a crash coming down Wrynose, think he done his collarbone.

Aye. You never asked about the descents. They are seriously steep. Even the Tarmac struggles to stick to the slope hence the ripple effect. It’s the only time I’ve thought of dropping the saddle on the road bike.

Re Amulree climb.

I don’t remember it being that bad when I last did it so reckon it’s not as hard as the Lakes stuff.

Cheers

Sanny

^^^ there was another accident on this years evans rideit.

Happened about 20-30minutes before I got to Wrynose, young lad, less than 18 I think, locked up both wheels and came off not far from the top. Pretty sure there were no cars involved just bad luck.

Guy managed to get a scenic lift in the great north air ambulance though.
Think I was the last one down from Wrynose as was watching the helo.
Was a good event, a very demanding course, wish I had taken my MTB instead of a road bike as spent most of the 6hours in bottom gear grinding out of the saddle (and wishing I had lower gears).

To do teh passes is nicer on a quiet week day, morning, and not in summer, you get a LOT less traffic, and the traffic you do get is locals and people who know how to handle a car. Wheras in summer you get tourists in ridiculous massive MPV’s, 4×4’s and BM’s and cannot drive them on teh narrow & rough roads, let alone minding out for cyclists.
Oh and discs on the way down are much needed, rim brakes, no matter how good, just burn up (tyres often explode from the heat/expansion).

Just looked at the route. The way the FW goes its Hard Knott is harder than Wrynose by far. That side of wrynose isn’t that long ot steep

I firt trieds them the other way with touring gearing 36×28 and panniers and failed. I suceeded both ways on the same bike with out panniers a few weeks later

I think the passes make the case for triples on road bikes very well. For mortals any way.

I think the passes make the case for triples on road bikes very well. For mortals any way.

Nah, you’ve just got to man the **** up. Our lad went from coniston and did wynose and hardknott, turned round and then went back over hardknott and then wrynose. All on a 39/25. He is mortal. But he did fall off near the top of hardknott cos he couldnt turn his legs anymore.

Did Wyrnose and then HK last year loaded with camping kit from Langdale. Going from Langdale to the coast I reckon Wyrnose is harder, and HK is OK (although the start is very steep). However in the opposite direction (heading from west to east) HK seems (and probably is) much longer, but Wyrnose would be easier. HK going West to East seems substantially bigger / longer than Wyrnose in either direction.

david I have of course met people who have done these passes on insane gears

I asked a bloke how he coped with 42×24. He said he only used that gear on the steep bit of hard knott (towards the coast at the bottom) the rest he did 42×21

But if 80% of FD riders walk up then they were sold bikes with the wrong gearing. There may have been a time when there was some argument about the need for close ratios on the flat etc. But when a bike can have 20 or 30 gears surely the lowest should be low enough for most people to be able to ride these hills?

I asked a bloke how he coped with 42×24. He said he only used that gear on the steep bit of hard knott (towards the coast at the bottom) the rest he did 42×21

WTF! Absolute machine, he cant be a mere mortal!

But if 80% of FD riders walk up then they were sold bikes with the wrong gearing. There may have been a time when there was some argument about the need for close ratios on the flat etc. But when a bike can have 20 or 30 gears surely the lowest should be low enough for most people to be able to ride these hills?

Yeh, I see your point. Although I think on the FW, by the time you get to hardknott, some are just too tired to cycle up whatever gear they have.

Fair point David I an still to this day amazed.

Had a shottie at it a couple of months ago. I had no luggage and used a light mtb with slicks. Visibility was nil. I was disappointed to find a cairn beside the road and realised I was at the top. I’m just a commuter and not that fit. Biggest problem was keeping the front wheel down. I found Corgarff in the highlands harder (but my gears were higher then). Loved going down the other side and Wrynose is quite a bit easier, went up it without realising I wasn’t in lowest gear.