Do you think they are worth £500? I’m not sure. I think if they were nearer £300 then I’d be more interested.

Anyway, what’s the difference between the two flavours AM and FR? is it just strength?

what’s a saint setup (cranks, front mech, shifter, dual ring chain device) run to? Actually just priced it, £360 on CRC and that’s cheaper than RRP. So Hammerschmidt not *that* much more?

What problem does a Hammerschmidt actually solve? for £500 and 1.6kg

I saw a young lady with one on a XC hardtail at the weekend. It that what they are for? I thought they were more a downhilly thing?

For me the Schmidt would solve the can’t fit a front mech on my bike problem but I suppose it also solves the can’t fit a front mech and chain device problem.

Jools – I thought the same. I’d stick to a double / triple on a XC machine.

I’ve seen a few brand new ones go for around £300 on eBay.

I have serious doubts about how they would last through a gritty northern winter.

Looks like you can get them from the US for £350 – that’s more what I’m talking about!

Bushwacked – Member

For me the Schmidt would solve the can’t fit a front mech on my bike problem but I suppose it also solves the can’t fit a front mech and chain device problem.
Not sure if it solves the chain device problem as you need the ISCG mounts on the BB shell for Hamerschmidt to attach correctly.
IIRC the difference between AM + FR are the ratios it uses.

Only difference between am and fr is weight/strength.

I like mine; for xc there is no point but bring on the gnar and it becomes a really nice thing to have. No complaints with it so far and I am a warranty magnet.

The ratios are the same – that’s why I can’t work out what he difference is. I can only assume one is built for harder riding than the other.

On the ISCG side – I’ve spoken to some and when running a double they’d like a top guide but with a Mech they can’t have a guide as well only a roller.

Messiah – cheers – mystery solved!

Only difference between am and fr is weight/strength.

Fr also is spaced wider, beefy frames like mine might not work with the AM version, or it will be a tight fit.

Regarding the gritty winter, my friends had good experiences in Finland.

psychle has been trying to sell a frame with one on on it for ages, might be worth looking him up.

Am and fr bottom brackets interchangable and both in 68/73 and 83.

I bought mine sh off here after a brief trial of a friends… to try is to like. I liked it but my frame arrived with no front mech cable stop so my arm was twisted… very happy with result.

For me the Schmidt would solve the can’t fit a front mech on my bike problem but I suppose it also solves the can’t fit a front mech and chain device problem.

Eh? Which bike?

You can stick a front mech and a dual ring device on either of your bikes easily mate…

AM Arms are about 150-200g lighter than the FR versions… Think SLX Vs Saint in terms of destined use.

Personally, I’m not convinced by the “overdrive” facility, it adds friction when you’re running the crank in 1.6:1 rather than 1:1. But seeing as that’s the whole point of the system, then it’s kind of lost on me really! That and I REALLY hate SRAM shifters, which of course you have no option but to run.

I’m almost tempted to go 10 speed with an 11-36 cassette and 32T ring, but pedalling harder is cheaper and I’ve got a load of top quality 9spd bits that ain’t gonna wear out any time soon… That and 9spd chains are narrow enough already thanks!

The biggest advantage is the instant shifts, you can shift at any time any under any load with no ‘crunch’
You can run a shimano shifter, i’m running a saint.
Drag is no worse than a chain device.
They do need some love to keep running sweetly. A few filthy rides means a regrease may be needed.
The isis drive side bearings are poor (but available for £15 for two at betd)
Not sure I’d blow £500 on one but as it came with the bike I’m happy enough.

Mboy – I’m looking at some options to get the BIG bike a bit more than just a DH bike 🙂

Mboy – I’m looking at some options to get the BIG bike a bit more than just a DH bike

14.4″ Seat tube on it according to the website… I GUARANTEE you there isn’t a seatpost in the world long enough to get an efficient saddle height for pedalling for you, despite the fact you’ve shrunk by 2cm of late! 😉

Seriously, my Giant Reign X has a 17″ Seat tube, a 367mm Thomson is only just long enough, and I’m as good as the same height as you… 2.6″ difference in seat tubes equates to 65mm, so you’d need a seatpost of more than 430mm in length!!!

Give up, accept it’s going to be a gravity sled mate… I’m most probably gonna single ring my Giant too, cos as it is, it’s too heavy and too soft to ride uphill for any length of time, I’d rather just enjoy it for what it’s good for which is messing about on trails that point downwards… We both have bikes much more suited to going uphill, or riding all day XC rides!

Can’t really see the point of it unless we’re talking about running them exclusively on North Shore type circuits… There’s additional friction inherent in the system when you run a higher ratio which rather defeats the object IMHO.

I do like the idea of instantaneous front shifting that doesn’t require pedalling though.

The increased friction is a non issue when you learn how best to use the hs. Stay out of the overdrive as much as possible for normal riding and especially power moves… but engage it for gnar dh to move up the sprockets and keep the chain tight… but also if you stall a flick of the thumb has you ready to twiddle out. All this with huge ground clearance and no chance of losing the chain… Love it for techy gnar stuff.

For where I ride a 1x 9 would be best with a 22 at the front… the hs overdrive is what says on the tin.

Seat tube is less of an issue.

Blackspire seatposts are mega long, add a high rail wtb saddle and you may get away with it.

Had two HS’s fitted to different bikes. To be honest I loved them to start with. You have more ground clearance, instant shifting, never drop a chain. You will need to run SRAM drive train and shifters though which adds to teh cost of changing over. Also you can run them on an ISCG bracket (not approved method but I did with no issues at all on a yeti 575).
Anyway I don’t own a HS anymore because they both started going tits up in grit and mud. Mine were both early models though so they may have imrpoved this in later batches.

P.S. They aren’t a DH thing they are an all mountain / XC thing. Just like running 2×9. Not for racing really as they are pretty heavy.

. You will need to run SRAM drive train and shifters though which adds to teh cost of changing over.

Surely you just need a front sram shifter, and the rest can be whatever you want?

This whole extra friction thing, can anyone explain that to me? What’s an overdrive?

This whole extra friction thing, can anyone explain that to me? What’s an overdrive?

With a normal set up where you have chain rings in the front and rear and a chain pulling them you get about 95% efficiency, meaning 95% of the power you use to push on the cranks goes into moving the bike forward. With Hammerschmidt you probably get about that when using the smaller gear in front, but with the bigger gear (overdrive) you get less efficiency. This is due to the way the larger gear is produced.

I don’t think it would be as much of an issue as it’s made to be in my riding. Currently I have a 28t (1×9) in the front and only spin out on downhills, I could live with a bit less efficiency there and use the 26t hammerschmidt for most of my trails. I have a few buddies with them, and they feel the same. They all are very happy of how it functions, and everybody says it has changed the way they ride (at least a bit).

Personally I hate front dérailleurs, hence I don’t run one. I would like to try the hammerschmidt, but also feel it’s a bit too expensive. I’m also worried about how my suspension would work with the even smaller front chain ring. I assume the suspension was designed for a 32-36t ring.

14.4″ Seat tube on it according to the website… I GUARANTEE you there isn’t a seatpost in the world long enough to get an efficient saddle height for pedalling for you, despite the fact you’ve shrunk by 2cm of late!

Maybe one of those travel adjustable seat posts?

Major advantage of the HS over a 1 x 9 (or 10) is the ability to make a big jump in the gears without having to skip across the whole block at the back – especially important for stall and grunt moves in techy terrain. As has been mentioned, it takes a little thought and figuring to make the most of the HS but I like it. I’ve not had it through a winter yet but I stripped it after a horrendous wet summer week and all was fine inside.
I might yet go to 1 x 9 for the worst of the winter so as to now wreck it.

I have a theory. Light bikes need big chainrings, heavy bikes do not. If your running big DH tyres and your bike weighs over 30 lbs there is not much point having a chainring larger than 36 – hence double and bash or HS.

My next bike will be 1×10 but I was going to get the hammerscnidt.

you need to try one though, you will never go back to conventional front mrch set up.

the fast shifts are incredible.

plus he weight is a downside.

|I want a hammerschidmt on my SS bike, so i’ve got a bail out gear and the weight doesn’t matter to much as i don’t have gears.

Cheers Kamina – do you know what the efficiency is for the bigger gear?

I’m not a fan of front mechs either. My ones locked up solid due to frozen mud in the winter before and I was stuck in my big chainring for the rest of the ride. They’re always mud traps.

I’m not sure I see that much advantage between 1×9 and 1×10 especially when compared to the Schmidt. The new 10speed cassettes aren’t greatly different to the 9 speed ones in terms of range of gearing (11-34 or 11-36).

AJ – Using an HammerSchmidt on a singlespeed would be daft – you would be in the draggy overdrive the whole time and it would do your head in 👿

Ben at Kinetics has a really great program for figuring out what effect a change in gear ratios has (K-Gear) – you can have a couple of windows open and compare the options. It’s amazing how much duplication you have and if you figure out which gears you use most of the time you can work out what options will be best for you. Not sure if he has updated it to 10 speed but you can tweak it easy enough.

http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/k_gear.shtml

Cheers Kamina – do you know what the efficiency is for the bigger gear?

No, sorry. I’ve seen plenty of speculation but no facts. I think it all boils down to how much of your riding you would be able to do in the small vs. big gear.

Been running a HS on my Yeti asr7 love it. Running super short rear cage on 9 speed cassette its awesome no probs with chain coming off and instant gear change from the 24 tooth to the 38 tooth (24 X 1.6) . Drag not noticeable at all . Get one !