During a chat between the mother in law and the wife, my mother in law announced that she would no longer be shopping at Asda as they had ( in her local store )dedicated a section of the meat fridge to Halal Meat. Now, she is a vegetarian and as such is a little conscious of animal welfare but, at the same time, she does have, to put it politely, a rather narrow world view so I just put her reaction down to that. However, having read up on it, it would seem that the "Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) - concluded that the way halal and Kosher meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and should be banned immediately" (source BBC news), the Food and Farming minister in the UK, Lord Rooker, stated that Halal and kosher meat should be labelled when it is put on sale, so that the public can decide whether or not they want to buy food from animals that have bled to death. He was quoted as saying, "I object to the method of slaughter ... my choice as a customer is that I would want to buy meat that has been looked after and slaughtered in the most humane way possible." The RSPCA supported those views.(source Independent newspaper).
Taking those views into account, is the mother in laws reaction quite so narrow as I at first thought?
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Halal Meat
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Posted 2 years ago #
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dedicated a section of the meat fridge to Halal Meat
So what's her problem ?
Tell the narrow-minded, racist, bigot, that there's no vegetarian food in the Halal section of the meat fridge.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
Racist pig.!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Tell the narrow-minded, racist, bigot,...........
So it's all about racism and there are no animal welfare issues ? I don't think that you've read the post properly.
Posted 2 years ago # -
To be fair though the way they slaughter animals in the name of "religion" is **** cruel ( is that a jihad coming my way
)
Posted 2 years ago # -
So it's all about racism and there are no animal welfare issues ?
No, I simply threw in the racist insult to sound more offensive.
If it's all down to 'animal welfare issues' why was she still shopping in Asda when they were selling meat ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I was under the impression that most of it was just "blessed" rather than using the full on traditional methods?
Posted 2 years ago # -
An interesting issue as it all surely depends on subjective views of whose rights are more 'important': the sheep/cow's, the Jewish or Islamic communities or the (easily upset) vegetarians.....hmmm, people or animals who should we care about more???*
*surely this is a no-brainer?
Posted 2 years ago # -
so that the public can decide whether or not they want to buy food from animals that have bled to death
As oppose to buying food from animals that were electrocuted then bled to death?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Unless she is a vegan, she is in a bit of a glass house on this.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Would you be rather bled to death or shot? I think she has a point and she isn't a racist.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Did anybody else hear that? not sure, but I think it was a can of (non-denominational) worms being opened up.
Posted 2 years ago # -
All slaughtered food animals bleed to death - its the lack of pre-stunning that differentiates Halal and Jewish slaughter
Posted 2 years ago # -
At the end of the day she is an individual and entitled to her own views and can decide where she draws the line and takes action on any given issue.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Halal Puffin anyone?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Racist pig.!
Half wit!
Posted 2 years ago # -
At the end of the day she is an individual and entitled to her own views and can decide where she draws the line and takes action on any given issue. ..or shops
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ritually slaughtered, which involves having its throat cut then using the thrashing of the still conscious animal to force the blood out of its body or bolt through the brain?
Two minutes or seconds, hmmm....
Then again how many meat eaters who are so agast at the concept of Halal butchering have ever actually killed and eaten an animal themselves? Pretty daft being judgemental when all your meat comes in nice little packages from the supermarket.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Asda have always sold eggs and meat products which are produced using 'factory farming methods'. This involves a lifetime of cruelty for the poor creatures concerned.
Despite that, apparently trailmonkey's mother-in-law had no problem shopping at Asda. However, she now wants to stop shopping at Asda because she is concerned about a creature's last remaining few minutes of life.
It sounds to me, like a mixture of hypocrisy and bigotry.
I don't eat meat btw, and neither am I a muslim.
Posted 2 years ago # -
actually killed and eaten an animal themselves?
So - roll call...I have with fish (killed, gutted, cleaned) but not meat. Probably only because it is easier to go out and fish for your own food than it is to catch wild bulls/pigs/chicken...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Puffin...
Posted 2 years ago # -
actually killed and eaten an animal themselves?
Kill it and grill it!
Rabbit, deer, pheasant, duck, pigeon, fishes and more.
Posted 2 years ago # -
There is very little difference between Halal/Kosher methods of slaughter and that used in an ordinary slaughterhouse.
All meat passed fit for human consumption in the UK has to be bled to death in order to rapidly rmove the toxins that are produced at the moment of death. The stunning of the animal is for the benefit of the slaughterman, not the animal.
A well cut throat will cause the animal to pass out fairly rapidly anyway.Posted 2 years ago # -
It's not has it been bled to death - that's all animals, it's has it been stunned or not? Usually Halal and Kosher is not stunned, therefore aware of what is going on, however, this appears to be open to some interpretation. One of the bigger Halal chicken plants (certainley used to) lightly stun the birds - the idea is that if it can make an absolutely full recovery from the electrocution and live a happy life thereafter with no side effects then it counts as Halal. Having not read the relevant sections of the Big Book of Rules, I couldn't comment on the that. But in practice it meant that watching the birds coming down the line, only about 1 in 10 weren't stunned.
My slightly sick sense of humor meant I found it almost amusing that there was 2 blokes stood there dispatching the birds at an impressive rate, only pausing to wash their visors, whilst some bloke stood next to them praying! That was his job, stand on the kill line for 6 hours a day praying for the souls of the chickens as they shot by at 6 a minute.
(This factory supplied most, if not all the supermarkets at the time).Posted 2 years ago # -
"Asda have always sold eggs and meat products which are produced using 'factory farming methods'. This involves a lifetime of cruelty for the poor creatures concerned.
Despite that, apparently trailmonkey's mother-in-law had no problem shopping at Asda. However, she now wants to stop shopping at Asda because she is concerned about a creature's last remaining few minutes of life.
"Exactly what I was thinking.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Just rabbit and pigeon. Oh, once tried eating a pike that I'd caught - to be honest, it wasnt a situation I'd want to find myself in again.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Would you be rather bled to death or shot?
Not sure. Possibly bled to death.
Posted 2 years ago # -
We are talking about animals whose creation we arrange simply because we want to kill and eat them. Everything that happens to them is to advance the objective of getting bits of them onto someone's plate. As a result the vast majority of the meat we eat comes from creatures which have (judged in human terms anyway) pretty sad lives. We treat meat animals purely as means and not as ends in themselves.
It is difficult then to see the moral consistency in a position that says you can treat an animal in that way during its life, but the precise way in which it dies has a moral significance.
Instinctively, I also plain don't believe that the animal has a preference. If the beasts we're talking about have enough sense in their heads to be worth worrying about their feelings, I reckon the whole "being taken to the abattoir" thing is quite upsetting for them, and I reckon they catch on in a dim sort of way what's happening to them and don't much like it. There is a view that "humane" slaughtering techniques actually hurt like a hell, and a view that halal techniques don't hurt as much as one might expect. I can't judge whether any of it is correct and don't really have much empathy with cattle to start with so I find it hard to get much feel for what the experience is like if you have the brain of a cow.
Given all that, I wouldn't personally worry too much about there being halal meat in Asda. Ho hum.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Is this about (a)animal welfare, (b)racism or (c)how you'd rather be killed?
If it's a, where does she think 'meat' comes from in the first bloody place? If it's b, the OP may have pointed us in that direction by describing his mother in law as having 'a rather narrow world view'.
If its c, I think I'd rather be force fed pies until my liver explodes (Yorkshire fois gras anybody ?), or bummed off a tramp - cant make my mind up, to be honest.Posted 2 years ago # -
Would you be rather bled to death or shot?
Not sure. Possibly bled to death.
If we assume the shooter is efficient then death from shooting would be instantaneous.
In contrast regardless of where the incision is made we can assume the victim is aware for a varying amount of time that death through blood loss was inevitable.
Animals may not be sufficiently sophisticated to understand that bleeding would lead to death (even if we assume the incision is painless which it is unlikely to be) however humans would.
Given this varying period of what I would imagine is the most terrifying, harrowing and ultimately final moments of ones life. Why would you choose bleeding to death over being shot?Posted 2 years ago # -
Why would you choose bleeding to death over being shot?
Because I'm not convinced that being shot is more painless than bleeding to death.
EDIT : I reckon I might choose to cut my wrists as a way of ending my life, rather than a bullet to the head. Although I haven't given the problem much thought.
Posted 2 years ago # -
thats why my plan is to grow meat in huge tanks complete with bones, circulatory system, immune system etc but no nerves or brain
surely that should appease all animal welfare issues (of course would have to be a lot of GMing going but the luddites will get over that)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Why would you choose bleeding to death over being shot?
Because I'm not convinced that being shot is more painless that bleeding to death.
Are you saying that when a person is shot,(and medical science tells us that brain stem function is lost immediately, or at least in such a short enough period to make it immeasurable in terms of human consciousness) then in practical terms you choose a method that would almost certainly at least cause the pain of the incision, not to mention the inevitable pain of multiple organ failure and psychological terror?
Assuming again the shooter is efficient.Posted 2 years ago # -
actually killed and eaten an animal themselves?
Rabbit, Duck, Pigeon, Pheasant, Grouse, Partridge, Hare and yes fish.
She's entitled to her own beliefs but I wonder how long it lasts before she sneaks in for some veggies.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm sorry to sound smug, but getting bummed off a tramp's sounding better by the minute now, isnt it?
Posted 2 years ago #
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