Gisburn RED , Sherwood RED , Bedgebury RED, Whinlatter RED, i don’t want to open a can of worms but they are all different . Now i want flow ,i want to be worked hard i want some thrills . Gisburn delivered x10 . I found it very hard and it did not flow ?? it was very technical maybe too much technical especially on the ups , and what are those huge slabs and boulders about? has any body eve ridden gisburn and not dabbed ?? or do i need to MTFU . great day out just a bit disjointed ?

Sherwood pines red is nothing like Forest of Dean red, my kids have rode both and will vouch for that!

Llandegla red V Dalbeattie?

Sherwood pines PINK route vs any other red route that isn’t situated next to a centre parcs and doesn’t actually have a worthwhile easier option…

The techy up bits and slabby bits are part of what make Gisburn interesting.
Ride it faster and see if it flows more.

Green/Blue = Family
Red = Other Trail
Black = Hardest 10% of what you have

There are proper Forestry Commission guidelines on graded trails, but it also varies on where you are and what the trail is doing. There are some black trails that are black due to their length, rather than difficulty and there are some black trails as mikewsmith suggests that are just black because they’re the hardest things they have.

It’s similar to American, French and Italian red ski pistes all being different difficulties too.

Gisburn’s main difficulties are uphill, not downhill. I can think of half a dozen uphill bits that can catch you out. And it used to be even harder before they resurfaced Homebaked!

Satisfying when you clean them all, though.

I agree that a few sections seem to have pointless lumps and bumps or are cut up rough so they tend to sap your energy, but it is a XC trail rather than a ‘fire road up, singletrack down’ type centre.

Have you done Stainburn? Gisburn seems much easier in comparison.

Have you done Stainburn? Gisburn seems much easier in comparison

I found the opposite. I found both very enjoyable/educational but as OP says there are lengthy parts of Gisburn red that are (very?) technically difficult, inc some of the DH parts.

I’m not complaining btw and it is a case of MTFU and learn. But like OP I find it a bit strange that you can go somewhere like Dalby red and then go somewhere like Gisburn red. They are polar opposites. IMHO it would be helpful if the rating was related to the technical difficulty, rather than the length, as that’s possibly what most riders want to understand from the grading. eg. Red-Long or Red-Short.

You could argue that Dalby red is a blue route, with a few short sections of red included.

You could easily wheel a wheelchair around the Thetford Black!

Gisburn’s main difficulties are uphill, not downhill.

I’d agree with that.
The bits that are likely to make you dab are on the climbs, eg that very top loop at Whelpstone Crag as it climbs to the slab, where there are just a few big lumps of rock dropped into a bog. Keeping momentum and holding a ridable line up and over them is not easy.
The downhills are all easy rollable stuff though, so I don’t think it could ever be graded anything other than “red”.

I like a Red 5b VS

Gisburn is not hard but you have to go for it, the ups can deff catch you out more than the downs. Fun though.

Stainburn is much harder/techy but very short so you can session it easier. If you learn at Stainburn then lots of other places get much easier.

Dalby red is only red cos it’s long.

Dalby has some moderate technical bits on the red loop, theres a few fairly steep rocky descents, some with smallish drops that could catch you out. Wouldn’t really call it a blue altough the technical bits are few and far between.

Same all over though look at Whinlater red to Northface for instance in the lakes both Reds as well.

TBH sometimes we have more fun on Blues as they seem to be smoother where a competent rider can travel at real speed the only problem then is other users who are not as confident.

Nevis Red vs practically every black in the country.

The colour system’s just too crude tbh, individual trail gradings could be better but you really can’t do much with a 5 point grade scale. I like the idea of keywords, so you might go Red-fast-flowy for Glentress red, Black-long-rough for Glentress black, just basically take the 2 or 3 words that pop out when you describe the trail.

Gradings will always be subjective though, if you send someone who’s good at jumps down a jump trail they’ll say it’s easy, you might send them down a rock garden next and they say it’s black, next rider could say the opposite.

I think you have to take gradings on a discrete basis too. Thetford red is harder than the blue, and the black is harder than both. Clearly to call it a black in the national context is utterly laughable, but for someone who rocks up at Thetford, having them all called green wouldn’t be that much help.

It’s broad system, relative to the park in question.

I can’t think of a better/simpler way of doing it that doesn’t open you up increasing criticism or liability; or that takes into account each individual rider’s experience. Impossible.

Ski runs have exactly the same inconsistencies across resorts.

My tuppence worth

Gisburn is easier once you’ve ridden it a couple of times – got used to the uphills and know where you need to carry momentum.

Dalby is technically easier – with only two short sections I’d say were red – but quite fun to hammer along.

Stainburn red is fun, not mega-technical but a good short blast. The black is a completely different matter….

I could see a descriptive being useful to go with the trails – but you only need to ride it once to know what its like so its not a huge investment of time to find out I guess.

Sherwood pines is really not Red.

Ski runs have exactly the same inconsistencies across resorts.

& across countries.

Italian Black = French Red

Sherwood pines is really not Red.

No it’s not compared to the 7 Stanes for instance, but Sherwood Pines takes a massive volume of recreational family riders – in that context it’s a Red.

Given (I’m very local) that the litigation of people falling off bikes in Sherwood Pines from holidaying punters on flat wide tracks (in some cases stationary) has taken a leap recently … what would you do?