We have cleaned a singletrack near Baunei, Sardinia and this video gives you a good idea what it’s like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkxE3FWIJLA (Yes Clait should not have forgotten his helmet, he has been thoroughly told off).

We are loading the description onto the forum with almost 2000 routes in Italy, and I will add the description in English as well. They suggest using the (German) Singletrack Scale (attached), and using this scale I'd rate the descent 50% S1; 35% S2-3; 15% S4

I would like to use a difficulty rating which UK mountain bikers would understand, and although I'm British, I have only mountain biked in Italy. How would people advise me to proceed? Compared to the STS scale, the UK's green>blue>red>black scale (eg trail grades 7stanes is (a) much more subjective (b) not just a technical rating. I am after a technical rating for the descent, not a rating for overall difficulty due to length/height gain. For those of you who are familiar with rock climbing, I want the equivalent of the UK tech grade/boulder grade, not the overall French or E grade.

Or if all else fails, what difficulty rating would UK bikers assign to the trail shown in the vid?

BTW I am the bloke in yellow when Clait is yelling "Eccolo". Being British, I don't mind having the piss taken. Italians are more touchy so I didn't put him bailing out on YouTube -;

Ta Peter

Don't know about the trail, but some of your mates are making a meal of it 😉

Difficult to tell the steepness of the trail from the video.

From that i'd say Red. Everything is rideable the first time you ride it, and everything you can just roll down.

Lot of mincing going on. Your friends need to brake less, and let the bike do the work.

I take it those were roadies out on a mountain bike for the first time?

Videos do tend to flatten the trail so perhaps I'm doing them an injustice, but on quite a few they're having to pedal so can't be that steep surely?

I would give that a black grade for technicality/ consequences of falling off if you take it fast.

Yeah, hard to say what with the video flattening things out. The riders do have a vibe of roadies on their first mtb ride (particularly guy in white), but again it's hard to say. Maybe they're proper skilled and the trail is a lot steeper than it looks. I guess red would be the catch all label.

A lot of the trail centres in the UK were built ten or so years ago and their black routes probably wouldn't be classified as such if they were built today. Glentress black is the classic example – great trail but technically very mellow by today's standards. Nothing on it that is harder than your vid, probably.

British system is a bit screwed up to be honest, as you sugested tends to lump technicality and physical exertion together to give a rating, rather than just a technical rating and allowing the rider to make a judjment on the length.
The German scale actually makes a lot of sense, trust the Germans to get it right eh. As long as there is a description of the scale used shouldn't matter.
Anyway area looks nice, keep us updated.

Keep saying this but probably in a minority of one but keep the colour bands green, blue, red, black and orange for how physical difficulty but add in numeric grading for how technical it is.

Technical 1 / 2 – Green
Technical 2 / 3 / 4 – Blue
Technical 4 / 5 / 6 – Red
Technical 7 / 8 / 9 – Black
Technical 10 onwards – Orange (free ride)

Using roman numerals Orange grades would then be X-grade.

The main advantage I can see is you can have low techical grade red or high tech grade blue.

Well thanks for the comments. I shall say it's red in the English translation but use the German technical scale as well. Since we're talking about a descent, physical difficulty makes itself less felt, though if you do the descent at the end of a long day you are definitely less "lucid".

Over the summer and beyond mountainbike Ogliastra is organising lots of rides on the east coast of Sardinia with many old mule tracks like this one

The descent in the video we do on 25/7, after a nice ride along the crest over the sea and the descent of this singletrack

thanks again Peter

How about changing the grading system according to the consequences?

I suggest:

Embarrassment
Bruising
Blood
Minor Breakages
Ambulance job
Death

🙂

The problem with technical grades is its still subjective, I'm not a great climber, only been a few times, but with some thought and common sense there wasn't much I couldn't drag myself up. So the stuff I could do I thought of as 'easy' and anythig I couldn't do was 'hard'.

Applying this to mountainbikes, the left hand line in Swinley Sandy Cutting is 'hard' and the right hand one is 'easy'. Yet 90% of mountainbikers wouldn't attempt either so would categorise them both as 'hard'. In reality it's probably soemwhere between red and black with the left hand line being double black?

I think gradings are too subjective and I would prefer a more descriptive way of doing this for "natural trails"

Easy; – no jumps or rock steps, suitable for beginners
Moderate – some rocky and steep parts, all rollable, suitable for riders with some experience
Hard- Lots of rocks and drops, suitable for riders with a lot of experience

I have been caught out by different countries coded gradings as they use different criteria

In fact, the hardest bits of the trail aren't on the vid, so I shall grade the trail overall black/Hard- Lots of rocks and drops, suitable for riders with a lot of experience. Hence the S4. The STS scale has a clear breakpoint between where you can roll and where you no longer can.

I take it those were roadies out on a mountain bike for the first time?

This is me-;) Mauro is pretty good, see eg 5:10 of this vid

cheers Peter

Trouble is notaspoon, "hard" covers quite a wide range and then, particularly with climbing, won't address a wide range stuff that you might not even have considered being a route at all. S5 on that german scale sounds more like mountain goat terrain rather than mountain bike terrain!

I like the top end of the french alpine climbing grades. After ED (Extremement Difficile) is ABO (Aboniblement Difficile)

IIRC the signs in Rotorua end up with "Grade 6 – High possibility of severe physical injury" or something like that. I minced round avoiding those…

I have ridden with Peter while he was trying to get an idea of how he could promote MTB on Sardinia and he was a super fit roadie but had no idea of what MTB was about

He led me on a big fire road climb then we descended all the way on the road!

Glad to see you have found some better stuff Peter

As a guide the trail from the top of the pass you ride up from the Lemon House down to the big gorge (sorry cant remember names) would be red grade

TandemJeremy – Member

I think gradings are too subjective and I would prefer a more descriptive way of doing this for "natural trails"

Easy; – no jumps or rock steps, suitable for beginners
Moderate – some rocky and steep parts, all rollable, suitable for riders with some experience
Hard- Lots of rocks and drops, suitable for riders with a lot of experience

I have been caught out by different countries coded gradings as they use different criteria

have a read of the gerrman system that he linked, thats basicly what it is.

Don't forget the UK system is for trail centres where everything is nicely predictable and designed. I'm happy flying down most things at a trail centre (fairly) safe in the knowledge that goats won't be coming across the trail, rock drop-offs won't give way and there's not a tree down around the next corner.

Peter, this is the trail you've recently cleared of the vicious Mediterranean vegetation right? If so from memory I would say this would be comparable to a 'red run' in the UK in terms of the rocks, gradient turns etc. However unlike a trail centre any drops do not have a predictable run out, the rocks are not necessarily fixed in place and the vegetation may grab you at the worst possible moment.

The ride down to Cala Sisine was also predominantly 'red' in nature with these same caveats, however the bottom bit, nearest the beach, would definitely fall into the black category. Here there were narrow steep boulder step-downs with tight switchbacks and a pretty long drop off to the side. I still rate that descent as the best I've ever done, even better for being natural. Largely if we three could ride it, it'd be 'red' with the odd bit of 'black' creeping in if we were brave/stupid!!!

The route on our last day that took us down that shear cliff would be predominantly 'black' hence our sore feet at the end of it. Here the trail was ridable in stretches but the terrain so loose that any mistake could have been very very serious.

thepurist – Member
IIRC the signs in Rotorua end up with "Grade 6 – High possibility of severe physical injury" or something like that. I minced round avoiding those…

Nice. I remember a picture of a boundary sign at a kiwi ski resort that said "Proceeding beyond this point may result in your pass being revoked and/or death."

Love the and/or!

I think what I was trying to say (not that easy and hard should be the only 2 grades) was that I dont find medium sized jumps 'hard' but equaly I chicken out of plenty of other stuff, so if a trail was graded red I'd hit it flat out first time and assume I'd be perfectly OK. But if there was a drop to a rocky landing I'd probably be in trouble.

Grades work in climbing because by and large its the most dificult move that stops you and you cant work arround it. On a mountainbike I'm not going to not ride a 5 mile trail just because the first feature is a 20ft drop, I'd walk past it and carry on, which you cant do in climbing.

Your grading on the German system is way out. There is nothing on the video beyond S2 (maybe borderline S3 for 1 section). Take a look at the pictures on the website

The German scale is pure technical difficulty and is incomparable to the UK colour scheme.

S1 looks like the average 'red' at a trail center!

S1 looks like the average 'red' at a trail center!

Exactly. The border of normal rideability lies between S2 and S3 depending on skill and experience of the rider. S4 and above are the realm of trials riders.

Peter, this is the trail you've recently cleared of the vicious Mediterranean vegetation right? If so from memory I would say this would be comparable to a 'red run' in the UK in terms of the rocks, gradient turns etc.

Yes it is, with an additional section above. I feel bad that you rode it before it was cleaned, but cheered up that there is an input on the forum, on Cala Sisine as well, from someone who's in a position to make good comparisons to UK.

Your grading on the German system is way out. There is nothing on the video beyond S2 (maybe borderline S3 for 1 section)

Thanks for the photo link, these pictures are very helpful. On the video there aren't the sections we're not able to ride, and they are the 15% of the track I graded S4 (from the written descriptions of the grades, the Italian version is very precise, much better than the English translation).

Overall I have decided to grade the descent based on these comments "red, a couple of short black sections 20% S0; 30% S2 35% S2-3; 15% S4" with the link to the photos. Since as you have all said the riding here is very different to trail centres, but we want to accurately describe what it's like, a grade like this plus photos/videos seems the best approach. Then people have the most info to decide what to do. Of course, with more people riding the trail, the grade can be modified (just like in climbing).

I have ridden with Peter while he was trying to get an idea of how he could promote MTB on Sardinia and he was a super fit roadie but had no idea of what MTB was about. He led me on a big fire road climb then we descended all the way on the road! Glad to see you have found some better stuff Peter.

I am enjoying learning, seriously…I go and ride this trail once a week, it's just above The Lemon House…it's very satisfying each time to be able to ride a bit more than I could do the week before. Also we have lots of interest here in mountain biking now we have formed our association: tomorrow I go to ride a new trail at Urzulei, we have 10 or so people from all over Sardinia so far signed up to come and ride the trail on 25/7, we have hotels/restaurants/bars wanting to sponsor the kit…one is the Hotel Silana at Genna Silana, and from there you descend to the Gola su Gorroppu (this is the gorge whose name Over-active-knife-and-fork couldn't remember) on this path

Thanks, everyone, for the comments, and come and ride the trails here!

cheers Peter

A group from Urzulei just inaugurated this 20km loop of shepherds' tracks and newly-cleaned singletrack. S0-1 so even I can ride it all -;)

epicyclo – Member
How about changing the grading system according to the consequences?

I suggest:

Embarrassment
Bruising
Blood
Minor Breakages
Ambulance job
Death

Much better!

I reckon that's a bruising/blood if you get it wrong.

PS, your mates need to bin that matching lycra.

your mates need to bin that matching lycra

That's what most people wear, don't be put off. In some cases we get it free -;) I won a nice new helmet in a road race yesterday, it EVEN has a peak!

here are some of the harder bits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbeI6BitKLY

ciao Peter

I don't think the UK system should incorporate length or climb, it should be just technicality as per the German system.

Because you can give the length, height gain and expected duration separately: Blue|25km|600m|2-4hours

if we apply rock climbing tech-grade ideas to biking, sponsored bike-jocks will then make rad moves and claim it's beyond double-diamond black, it's now x1, then x2, all the way up to x10, for publicity 🙂 the trail will then be repeated and downgraded, and endless debate will ensue from people whio can't ride x9, or even x1. other's will think fk grades, do it on sight, and crash a lot / get stuck on a mid-grade route. i know which style i like the sound of 🙂

bikes have speed as a huge variable that climbing has much less of so i can't see it working. in climbing terms it should all be ridden on-sight, or at least head-pointed after panick-braking and then thinking 'nah, it'll go' and sessioning sections.

or do it 'biker's top-roped', as in full pads and full face on a red run.

sorry..

I like the look of that second video, particularly if taken with a bit more speed. To the OP, are you setting up a business out there? Is this a "clever" piece of marketing? If so, it's working!

I like the look of that second video, particularly if taken with a bit more speed. To the OP, are you setting up a business out there? Is this a "clever" piece of marketing? If so, it's working!

My wife and I run a guesthouse, mainly for sporty types. Google a bit and you find us, not very hard, use a few of the words in the post. But, as one participant on Sunday's ride blogged to his fellow bikers back home in Rimini (I translate from Italian, but do check out his photos) "He doesn't like to say he and his wife have a B&B, he wants the area to be judged for the sports and he helps you do them…documenting new routes etc, for free" The other co-founder of the MTB association here, Mauro, is a registered MTB accompanier, he could ask for payment to take people riding, but says if people want to give money they give it to the mountainbike ogliastra association he and I have just formed. All the people on the ride on Sunday were Italians, none were staying with us, some live locally, some were on holiday here.

Sardinia, and in particular the bit we live in with 1000 m mountains 20 km from the sea, is fantastic for all "mountain" sports BUT is relatively poorly known. The NE corner has an expensive VIP-by-the-sea image which is totally unrepresentative of where we live. I figure the best way to get it developed is to document "scientifically" the riding – GPS files, good descriptions, videos, photos – and then it's for the punters, you lot, to say whether it's any good, obviously in the case of UK riders comparing it explicitly or implicitly to other overseas destinations, like Malaga in last issue of STW.

Hence the question on grades… So, are these bits black?

Then if people come and stay with us, that's fine and I will go riding with them on rides at their level, give a lift etc. If people aren't staying with us and I don't have other commitments, I will go riding/climbing/bouldering/walking with them provided we go to do a ride/climb/boulder that I want to do, like today I went with a German not staying with us to do this ride that we couldn't finish on Saturday when the Norwegian girl fell. I rode half the 20 switchbacks

today, compared to just one two months ago. Going to do it again on Tuesday with mountainbike ogliastra, will try a bit harder then.

cheers Peter

Peter and Annes guest house 'The Lemon House' is excellent by the way. They are easy going hosts who will do whatever they can to make your 'active' holiday as active as it can be.

We stayed there for a couple of weeks two years ago and they gave us lifts everywhere, loaned us climbing gear, took us to good spots for climbing and cycling; and even organised a couple of sea kayaking days.

Peters query is absulotely genuine re the grading of the local routes (my missus graded just about everything 'too ouchy' due to the pointy local rock (it's a place I'd wear elbow pads and I don't at home)). At the time there wasn't really any singletrack and Peter's guiding was on the firetracks and roads mentioned above but it looks like he's been busy clearing and brashing and waymarking just like we did here 10 or 12 years ago pre-trail centres..

Hopefully his wee business will benefit from a few forum posts, and the huge potential for off piste natural steep and techy trails will become a reality.

For the trail centre riders out there, don't expect easy gradient climbs. 500m (vert) of steep just to get to the next village and it's well hot.

Top venue for a two week do everything as well as lie on the beach holiday.

To blatantly steal from a climbing poster I once saw:

S0: Something you would expect your sister to do
S1: Something you would expect your mates to do
S2: Something you would take your mates on in the hope they couldn't do it
S3: Something you practise loads so you can show off to your mates
S4: Something you tell your mates you've ridden before "but it's a bit greasy today"
S5: Something that would get you free tyres for life and your picture in MBUK…

We took down the vid of the bloke riding without a helmet…
…and just so you can see someone else's photos and words, Google does an OK job of translating this article on Sunday's ride into English.

ciao Peter