I’ve found a wee hovel that is in need of total refurbishment, grade 2 listed and derelict – the agent described it as – but it ain’t that bad…
The work itself isn’t a problem, but everyone I’ve spoken to with experience of listed buildings has tales of woe. For example: Full architectural drawings and planning permission just to put up an outside light. 9 month projects turning into 5 year sagas just because of the jobsworthiness of the listed buildings dept.
Does anyone have any experience of titivating listed buildings?

everyone I’ve spoken to with experience of listed buildings has tales of woe.

anyone have any experience of titivating listed buildings

I’ve no direct experience, but like you everyone I’ve ever spoken to who has doesn’t have a good thing to say about the experience.

If you’re prepared to persevere you can get a cracking house out the other end of the process though.

Yes, as the architect not the builder. To a large extent it depends on your LPA and the individual Conservation/Historic Environment Officer – they all vary! Make sure you work proactively with them to get them on your side from the very beginning of the project and it should go smoothly – their default position is to preserve as much as possible but they will listen to arguments about financial viability etc to reach compromises over changes/alterations, as ultimately they would rather the building survived than became completely destroyed/redundant.

It will be a more lengthy and expensive process than working on a non-listed building but if you like the building then it may be well worth it.

Its easier to ask for forgivness than permission.

Go have a chat with the local conservation department , ours is a lot better than it used to be, much more realistic. If you come across as wanting to save the building as is and not trash it, is good.

I live in a Grade 2 Listed building built around 1750. Before it was listed in the mid seventies a previous owner put UPVC windows in, and fitted a dormer window at the back of the cottage with a cheap softwood window frame which rotted and caused mould and damp in a spare room.
I contacted the Conservation officer to enquire about changing the crappy rotten window frame for an identical unit but in UPVC to match the windows frames in every other window. This was not allowed. I had to exchange the cheap 70’s shit window with another one in wood. Ridiculous. I’d understand if it was an original window, but it wasn’t, it was the sort of thing you buy off the shelf at Wickes, with cheap aluminium latches.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that the obstacles you find sometimes don’t make any sense, and it can be a nightmare, depending on your Conservation Officer.

Its easier to ask for forgivness than permission.

Risky though, as they can fine you and get you to take out the changes and do it as it should be… A friends GF works for English Heritage inspecting unauthorized changes to listed buildings and the fines can be huge!

I was looking into an Amazing farm houseworks which needed renovating but avoided it as it was grade 2 listed, which was why it was a ‘bargain’ as it needed so much doing to it.

tbh if you are doing this as an Owner rather than it’s your job ie Developer you’ll find that it will be difficult. If for nothing else then it isn’t your area of ‘expertise’.

We’re currently converting an outhouse into an annex, and now Building Control are raising the same issues/questions we’d already solved when we got our planning permission… And this is straight, no listings or anything.

I have a bit of experience on this one.

Live in a grade 2 and totally renovated it. All started-off well enough with local Authority rep but went sour when they stopped listening to reason. Ended-up with complete communication breakdown. Wouldn’t return my calls or reply to letters and emails. Solicitors involved the lot. Was a real pain and what should have been a 3 year project turned into 6.
Some classic quotes:
Me: ”Im putting in Central heating so will obviously need radiators”.
Planners: ”Thats OK but you cant fix rads to walls”.
Me: ”OK I will use floor brackets”.
Planners: ”Thats OK but you cant fix them to the floor”.
Me: ”So I cant fix to walls or floors, How can I do it then”?
Planners: SILENCE.

Another:
”Wall tiles are fine in bathrooms but you cant fix them permanently”.
I never ever got to bottom of what they meant by that one.

The rep I dealt with was a joke.

Good Luck.

I have a bit of experience on this one.

Live in a grade 2 and totally renovated it. All started-off well enough with local Authority rep but went sour when they stopped listening to reason. Ended-up with complete communication breakdown. Wouldn’t return my calls or reply to letters and emails. Solicitors involved the lot. Was a real pain and what should have been a 3 year project turned into 6.
Some classic quotes:
Me: ”Im putting in Central heating so will obviously need radiators”.
Planners: ”Thats OK but you cant fix rads to walls”.
Me: ”OK I will use floor brackets”.
Planners: ”Thats OK but you cant fix them to the floor”.
Me: ”So I cant fix to walls or floors, How can I do it then”?
Planners: SILENCE.

Another:
”Wall tiles are fine in bathrooms but you cant fix them permanently”.
I never ever got to bottom of what they meant by that one.

The rep I dealt with was a joke.

Good Luck.

By way of contrast, we’ve owned two listed buildings (current one is in a conservation area as well) and have had no problems. Indeed I’d go so far as to say that our experiences, particularly with the local conservation officers, have been very positive.
First one we did a lot of renovation but didn’t change the actual structure of the building. Current one we done less renovation but have knocked down an old garage and replaced it with an orangery. We also erected a new garage further from the house. No significant issues either time.
The relationship with your conservation officer is absolutely key. Get them on your side and they can be really supportive (our neighbours objected to the orangery and whilst we did end up tweaking the design, the conservation officer was firmly on our side and told the neighbours so). Upset them and err they won’t be quite so helpful I assume.
If you have the opportunity, I would suggest meeting with the relevant officer before buying the property to see if you will be able to work with them. We found on both occasions that the officers really enjoyed coming to visit the properties and discussing the work with us.

Another problem I have heard of is when Building control inspector and the Conservation officer have completely incompatible requirements and you end up being stuck for months whilst they avoid talking to each other…… waiting for windows to go in….

Listed building work is what I do for a living. The easiest way about going about it, beyond understanding that there will be restrictions on what you can do, is to understand the building you are working on (what is new, what is old, why the building is listed etc) and then work with it rather than against it. Presenting a reasoned argument to the Planners always works better than being confrontational and backing people into entrenched positions.
If you email me on the address in my profile I could give you an opinion and depending where you are in the country I may be able to put you in touch with someone who could help you out/advise you

Presenting a reasoned argument to the Planners always works better than being confrontational and backing people into entrenched positions.

+1

Ours wanted an environmental study into possible industrial waste in the outbuilding, as we live in a ‘Mill’. Took a fair bit of explaining what a Threashing Mill was. They were then fine. And now BC has come back with the same request…

I’ve also now got to dig a hole so they can do a soak-test as they are saying that we’ve no data on the capacity of the current drains (+100 y/o), even though we are increasing the roof area by less than 5%. And the hole has to be 5 metres from any building AND boundary – like to see that happen on most folks plots.

I have a listed house as well, it can be a nightmare as the listing people can be zealots who have no idea of what is realistic cost wise. Our local one is not great and we are having a nightmare with an insurance claim at the moment. However, the listing/conservation people do not have the real power even if they imply they do so it is worth talking to both the conservation and the planning people, who are the ultimate arbiters. Also be careful it can be a bit of a racket when it comes to tradesmen and professional advisers who specialise in listed buildings, it seems a very large premium is added to every bill as soon as you mention the l word.

Agree with above and in Hindsight we (Builder and me) did go in a bit heavy.
The trouble I have is there is no clear laid down guidelines.

Surely in this day and age these things shouldnt be about ‘chatting-up’ the Conservation officer.

Surely in this day and age these things shouldnt be about ‘chatting-up’ the Conservation officer.

You would have thought that’s the case, but it isn’t.

Might be also worth checking how old the conservation officer is as if they change mid way through renovation you could be screwed.

If you don’t really love the house, it might not be a great project to take on. Also bear in mind there are tons of old houses around that aren’t listed (oldest bit of mine is 170-something and the house isn’t listed.

My mum and her fella have been working on a Grade II listed project for a few years now..

no probs with the authorities, bat protection and allsorts, the **** **** of a next door neighbour needs hobbling though.. he’s cost them thousands

Surely in this day and age these things shouldnt be about ‘chatting-up’ the Conservation officer.

You would have thought that’s the case, but it isn’t.

Might be also worth checking how old the conservation officer is as if they change mid way through renovation you could be screwed.

Can you send details of the place, asking to meet the person who would be dealing to discuss the history, your intent etc.?

You might decide very quickly whether it’s someone who you’ll be able to work well with or not.

I’d suggest watching this

to see what kind of small-minded, bureaucracy-obsessed, box-ticking jobsworths you’ll be about to encounter. I know the brother of one of the guys on the second programme. He took a run down, almost derelict shit-hole of a pub, in a grim area, put thousands upon thousands in to do it up, and turned it into a thriving, pleasant place.

You’d think the local council might view that in a positive light, wouldn’t you? Not a bit of it! They’re more concerned with him preserving the period pieces. They seem to have overlooked the fact that if he hadn’t invested all his money in it, it would now be boarded up or bulldozed

I wouldn’t even contemplate

A lot of it is about setting a precedent though – if one person does it and the planners allow it then others can do it as well. The only way to stop a free for all is to rigidly stick to the rules.

For example if other houses in your street have added a dormer then there is a fair chance you will be able to. If no one else has then it unlikely you’d be allowed to.

I’m not saying that the right way to do it but thats what seems to happen.

I’m hoping to meet the listed buildings chap next week, so I’ll find out the cut of his jib! The LA planners are renowned for being tricky to deal with, so I’ll see if that extends to old ruins…

I don’t want to do anything too radical, just fit a Bathroom upstairs, move the kitchen, all within the current structure.

Some good advice above. I’d definitely try and find out whether you can work with the Conservation Officer as some are good and pragmatic but some are such a PITA that your blood pressure may not take it.

Its easier to ask for forgivness than permission

is not such good advice as there are some heavy duty penalties for listed building infringements, if the LPA follow them up, and unlike normal planning matters there is no time limit for when enforcement action has to be taken. If you have works done without consent and want to sell the place, a buyer’s solicitor may ask to see the relevant consents.